人生切割术第一季

卢蒙公司开发了一项分离技术，可以将员工的「工作」与「个人生活」记忆完全切割开来，并受空间限制。

身处公司，只有工作的记忆；离开公司后，只有个人生活的记忆。

主人公马克便是接受切割术的员工之一。

他那原本按部就班的生活，也随着部门组长皮特的突然离职，和一位与众不同新员工的加入，被彻底打乱……关于本剧现实意义和社会隐喻的讨论比较多，但其用心的细节设计，也非常值得考究。

在此盘点一些可能在第一遍观看时会忽略的重要细节。

注：- 本文非剧情介绍，而是含有大量剧透的细节向分析- 4/11 更新了第二部分，第一季结局以及细节补充：#31 -#50- 4/13 更新修改了赫利最后道歉的理解

本回答重要的资料来源：正剧（第一季，共9集）官方领英 Linkedin 主页衍生短篇故事，以及宏观数据精炼MDR工作手册（外网apple books上可免费阅读）领英主页：

衍生短篇小说，apple books：

【剧透预警】【剧透预警】【剧透预警】【环境/公司背景】1、分离手术的应用这点主要是为了点题。

本剧本身便是从该分离手术细思极恐的应用以及后果展开说去。

外面的人 outie 无法肯定地知道里面的工作到底是什么；里面的工作人格“打工人” innie 则像是奴隶般一直不停地工作，被剥夺了睡觉、下班休息的体验，也被剥夺了基本的选择和质疑权。

剧中提出了至少三个细思极恐的场景：a) “加班“：自以为分离后就完美地从物理上分割了工作和生活，但没想到公司还留了一手“强制加班”，即无需空间限制，便可以启动 innie，直接剥夺 outie 的身体掌控权；b) 孕妇：不仅应用于工作，还可以应用于分娩、外科手术等会带来巨大疼痛的场合，创造 innie 来承担痛苦，而让 outie 轻松生活（第六集男主妹妹再次见到“孕友”却换了个人似的）c) 一直工作的人：因为内外人格无法正常交流，innie以为把身体掌控权交还给了outie，但却不一定有“outie“的存在，即一直工作、不走出公司的人，完全为公司所控制（第七集的真相揭晓）

2、公司领域 & 影响力卢蒙公司外包是生物技术公司，有生产药品、洗护用品等，但实际部门职能却让人迷惑，比如主角团的MDR，3D打印&整理画像的OD，甚至还有那个培养小羊的部门。

衍生短篇故事中暗示有的部门可能从事商业间谍活动，乃至恐怖袭击，但没有实锤。

公司的影响力也非常大。

正剧中，势力范围遍布整个小镇：小镇的名字就是基尔，创始人的名字（第二集电视上播出的天气预报）半个镇子都在公司工作（第一集约会时，男主女伴所言）第一集马克受伤拿到优惠券，对应烧烤店名字 PIP，便是公司其中一任CEO的别名（下图）在衍生短篇故事中，暗示公司通过大数据，专门给身陷困境的人发放招募广告。

第一集

第三集3、公司大楼公司大楼的俯拍，颇像大脑横截面，象征对大脑的控制与“分离”。

而且这个大楼，是现实中真实存在的地方。

只不过剧中应该进行了CG修改，修改成两侧都有湖，变得更加对称，更像人的大脑。

4、公司理念：重要数字 4 & 9在剧中、领英主页、工作手册中，都反复强调的9大核心准则，人的4大元素/脾气。

9大核心准则：

4大元素/脾气：

堪称信仰的4-9剧中也有一些对应4和9两个数字的设置：四大元素恰好就是MDR“精炼”数据所归的4个大类（上图左侧）MDR主角团 4 个人，OD部门 9 个人；马克 - 悲伤；迪伦 - 欢乐；欧文 - 恐惧；赫利 - 恶意；开场动画的9扇门

开场动画

5、公司创始人 - “上帝视角”基尔登高望远的画，所望向的湖泊形状，恰好是现实中的五大湖。

所以欧文和伯特聊起这幅画，说到感到不安，害怕他掉下去，也是因为假如能从这样的角度俯瞰五大湖，那么基尔所在的高度恐怕得非常高，甚至到太空去了。

几乎是从上帝的视角，俯瞰北美。

登高望远的姿态，也和第八集完成指标后，庆祝动画里的基尔一模一样。

总的来说，就是在烘托创始人高大伟岸、堪比“上帝”的圣人形象，潜移默化地让员工产生景仰之情。

6、公司CEO - 时间表历届CEO的任期时间，基本都是任期结束后便不久死亡，不知是先死亡，还是先卸任。

而且关键的换届时间，都恰好对应了美国历史的重要时间点：1865：美国内战结束1939：二战开始1941：珍珠港事件，美国参战1959：越战开始1976：越战结束1987：”黑色星期一“股灾1999：千禧年结束2008：次贷危机是因为关键时间点导致了换任，还是因为新上任而“促成了”历史转折点，没有定论。

如果是后者，那么卢蒙公司就更有点“光明会”的意思了……

【小组/MDR】7、入职的五个问题a）你是谁/叫什么名字？

b）来自哪里？

c）随便说出美国一个州？

d）伊根最爱的早餐是什么？

e）母亲眼睛的颜色？

基本就是不知道个人的具体信息/记忆，但保留着基本常识。

有知识，无记忆。

第四个问题比较奇怪，但是回看第二集就会发现，是黑人小哥在带赫利去做手术途中，插入了一个“知识点”，所以考察的是“短期记忆”。

8、四人组工作ID官方领英账号帖子中展示的四人组工作ID，SVR'D代表着被分离者（severed），与黑人小哥、老阿姨等看似没有分离的工作人员区分开来。

需要注意的一点是员工代码，08应该是分公司代码（短篇故事中讲述了卢蒙在kansas还有分公司），后面三位数应该是对应员工序号。

欧文最老（自称工作了三年）序号是454，马克两年位居其次（927），最新的赫利则是数字序号最大的（988）

9、四人组姓名首字母组合MDR部门主角团四个人的名字：Mark S.Helly R.Irving B.Dylan G.姓的首字母组成 sRGB，对应标准三原色，standard Red Green Blue；名的首字母组成 HDMI，对应高清晰度多媒体接口，High-Definition Multimedia Interface。

都和成像有关。

特别是 sRGB ，因为在公司都只称呼对方的姓氏首字母，HDMI也许是巧合，但sRGB一定是故意设计的。

而三原色颜色，在后面分析中是很重要的一环。

10、电脑坐标：对应颜色MDR电脑工作界面，如何布局，在工作指南里写得很详细。

关键的一点是，F处标记的“坐标”，指南中说的是“在数据库中的相对位置”，但倒数最后六位16进制的模式，让人联想到16进制颜色码，即代码对应特定的颜色。

于是有人搜集整理了本剧中出现的一些“坐标”以及对应人物/剧情。

乍一看不明觉厉，但首先，最与众不同的，是最后一个，欧文“走神”看到黑色液体时，他的电脑坐标对应的颜色，是区别于其他蓝绿色的粉红色，也呼应了“走神”的特殊性。

其次，根据之前首字母组合意识到RGB的重要性，这里坐标对应颜色也基本可以归类于三种颜色，绿色，蓝色，红色，而不是介于他们之间的其他颜色种类。

11、RGB象征意义以上再加场景（公司内大部分工具布景都是蓝绿色），就有关于三原色的推论：红色，象征 outie，生活绿色，象征 outie + innie蓝色，象征 innie，只有工作，如凯西女士而根据这一推论再看看RGB在剧中的其他对应，包括且不限于Petey的浴袍，红蓝相间，内外“融合“；男主妹夫的书籍，橙红色，启蒙书籍；办公用品式用红蓝绿三色包裹的纸；伯特退休派对上的西瓜（外绿内红）大妈从男主马克家地下室偷走的亡妻的蜡烛，是红色+绿色的，象征外面和里面；之后又让凯西女士点燃，则是用“外面”诱导看马克是否记得。

红蓝浴袍

三色外包装另外还有一说黑白。

因为三原色相加，是白色（光学）或者黑色（色彩），而通过总结归类，有推论说剧中白色往往代表着谎言，黑色往往代表着真相。

白色：黑人小哥总是身穿白色；赫利第一天下班拿到白色玫瑰；卢蒙总是被白雪覆盖。

黑色：万能钥匙卡是黑色的；欧文看到黑色的液体；“反叛者“身着黑色（Petey，女医生）开场动画，白色雪地中流出黑色液体，代表的就是从谎言中真相显现。

这一说稍微有点牵强，读者自行定夺。

黑色的万能钥匙

开场动画12、MDR的具体工作关于工作内容，有两个重要的点，在工作手册里有详细的解释：a）数据归类是基于四种元素来分的，而不是剧中口头简单所说的“数字很恐怖”而这四类，在前面第4点提到，是在大家参观永恒区时，基尔谈起自己“最伟大的成就“时，提到了人是由四种元素组成，他称之为脾气，从中“推导出一个人的灵魂”。

就是说，通过找到四种元素（悲哀、欢乐、恐惧、恶意）的比例，便可以“解析”一个人的灵魂/性格，联想一下，便可以从此对人进行“重构”，为其所用。

b）数据归类是有评判的，可能选择的数据会不达标。

不是觉得“恐怖”就恐怖，而是有评价标准，如果不匹配，则会显示不成功。

但不代表公司本来就知道“正确答案”，而是更像是“试密码”，正确答案不知道，但可以试错，直到成功。

而这种“试密码”的模式，就和解析性格也对的上了。

一个人的四种元素比例是不知道的，但可以通过试错的方式找寻正确的比例。

所以我倾向于理解为，MDR的精炼数据，精炼的是人的大脑/性格/灵魂数据，通过试错解析人类，从而达到“解构再重构”的目的，和卢蒙的大脑技术也对的上。

甚至解析的目标，可能就是，或者就包括MDR工作人员自己。

另外，结合衍生短篇小说来看，还有可能，是从事着商业间谍活动，通过试错解析竞争对手的技术仪器，或者找到对方的秘密，从而达到商业上的胜利。

至于其他部门的职能，比如本季平分秋色的OD，已经偶然发现的“小羊”部门，前者似乎是制造部门，提供基本用品，后者则一脸懵逼。

说到这，再提一个有趣的推论。

结合Petey留下来的地图，和赫利做手术的大脑X光透视图，会发现，分离芯片放的位置，大概是地图中永恒区的位置。

而光学设计OD部门，则大概是在正前方眼球的位置 —— 整个部门的设计布局，都在模拟“人脑”。

13、工作环境要求这一部分依旧是工作手册内容，除了MDR具体工作操作指南以外，还有较为常规的“要求”，其中这三条较为显眼：a）洗手/肥皂：非常细致甚至严苛的吸收要求，每天至少洗十遍手。

b）着装：要求单色调，黑白灰蓝/淡色，呼应RGB重要性之红色系颜色象征外界。

c）部门间交流：不鼓励，原因是“避免传播病原体“，可能是对疫情时代的meta指代，但总的来说是不希望员工在公司内生病，并且不希望部门间交流（比如散播谣言，故意给员工“造反”画作，甚至还起了特定的代号，266）

【马克】14、穿越“分离“：潜意识/情感虽然分离手术让内外两人格不共享记忆，但一定程度上，潜意识和情绪/情感可以打破这个壁垒，只不过两个人格可能不知道，对方人格留存下来的潜意识，具体代表着什么。

比如主人公马克，在外面以泪洗面，难以抑制内心的痛苦。

而在公司内部，Petey也看出了马克眼神中的悲伤，但却不知其由；马克在健康咨询时，捏出了妻子遇难那棵树的模样，但却不知其代表意义；马克和凯西女士能感受一种吸引力&关心，但却不知为何。

第三集永恒区基尔的语录中，也有所暗示：History lives in us, whether we learnt it or not.表面上说的是历史会沉淀在我们身上，不论我们是否吸取教训。

但对应上述内容，也可以理解为（人生的）历史一直在我们心中，不论（内外的）我们是否知其为何物。

15、没亮的第三个灯泡第二集由大妈提醒的没亮的第三个灯泡，象征着马克没觉醒的“第三种人格”，即内外人格融合过后的新人格。

这一推论，在片头动画中也有所展现，最后一幕，原本分离的内外两人格，逐渐融合，最终变成了一个，也就是第三个。

16、三个阶段三这个数字也是被反复提及。

前面所谈到的RGB，三原色在剧中的代表/所指，三个灯泡对应的人格觉醒，大妈办公室墙上一分为三的画作，甚至是第一集马克留宿妹妹家时，外甥房间的“三张床”。

这三张床，在剧中这里说的是为了让孩子逐步适应成长的变化，减少“换床”的创伤。

而对应之前提及的三原色对应：红色，象征 生活绿色，象征 生活+工作蓝色，象征 只有工作而马克正好在第二张床上，而他本身现在也是处于 outie 和 innie 共享一个身体的阶段。

而“孩子逐步成长”的三个阶段，对应的就是员工，从有外面的人格，但分离出内外共存，直到最后外面人格消亡，完全由内部人格取代。

像大妈、黑人小哥这样的员工，说不定就是……这样做的意义，就是完全创造出“属于公司”、完全听从公司指示的服从性内部人格，不会因为个人私事、情感而影响表现。

如此改造员工，让人不寒而栗。

17、凯西女士：一场实验？

凯西女士的身份揭晓，确实是本季的一个重磅炸弹（马克的妻子居然没有死，甚至还成为了全天候在公司工作的行尸走肉），但抛出的是更多的疑问：首先，科贝尔大妈的用意是什么？

显然是科贝尔故意增加了马克和凯西的接触：偷来马克地下室保存的亡妻蜡烛，似乎想勾起他的记忆；第八集看到马克和凯西还是不相识，却有些失落。

除此之外，公司一开始坚称“融合”不可能，直到科贝尔偷来芯片证伪；故意接触马克妹妹，似乎也是为了挖出马克的更多故事。

种种行为，都像是为了实现“融合”铺垫道路。

其次，凯西女士的死亡，是意外还是人为？

凯西女士/杰玛，是两年前车祸去世。

而巧合的是，短篇衍生故事中，想要揭露公司真相的peggy，最终也是车祸去世。

真的是巧合，还是卢蒙公司的“惯用伎俩”？

凯西女士的时间线也有点对不上。

她自陈有着107小时的生命，减去MDR观察赫利的八小时，并以半小时咨询为单位，说明一共进行了接近两百次咨询。

就算工作日一天只有一次，也不到一年。

但是杰玛是两年前去世。

两个猜想：杰玛身受重伤，而被卢蒙拿来做人体实验，一年多准备后才“正式上线”这个版本的凯西是为了科贝尔的实验生成的n代版本，第八集在测试层被“再次重启”

【欧文】18、“喜欢雷达的声音“欧文第二集走神后接受健康咨询，凯西女士在陈述一些outie事实中，其中一件在后续第八集得到了验证：“你喜欢雷达的声音” —— 欧文的宠物狗，就叫“雷达”。

而这一环节中，要求“平等对待”每一条内容，不显现出偏爱。

很可能是因为这些内容中，有真有假，只有平等对待，才能说明innie的情绪得到了控制，没有产生对outie外面生活的向往。

顺便一提，马克在第八集的健康咨询中，提到了“三分钟搭起帐篷”，而前两集地下室中我们可以看到有标记“野营”的盒子，印证了这条内容。

19、脏指甲 - 绘画欧文第二集的脏指甲，一开始以为是像马克一样去温室会见Petey，所以手弄脏了；其后又显现了对园艺的喜爱，又以为是做园艺留下的泥土。

直到第八集才真相揭晓 —— 原来是每天都在重复绘画，用了黑色颜料（对应走神时出现的黑色液体），留在了指间。

同样也呼应了第13点工作要求中，每天至少洗10次手的要求，可能也为了避免innie和outie通过手上的一些痕迹，传达了不该透露的信息。

其中，欧文绘画时的这个镜头，类似第四集科贝尔大妈取petey脑袋中芯片的镜头。

而画中的内容，则恰好是凯西女士”退休“、在“测试层“的画面。

20、欧文的工作年龄？

在说画的含义之前，需要注意的一点是，虽然欧文自己说工作了三年，但是官方主页发帖介绍员工时，却说欧文是九年前加入公司的。

而且这个帖子后面这句话truly transformed into a model employee"transform“这个词就用的挺妙的，有所暗示。

结合上一点欧文画的是测试层的画面，推断欧文曾经被“重启”过，所以工作时间才对不上。

工作的第六年，发生了什么事故，导致了“重启”，或者是第八集管理员操作界面上的“调职分公司 branch transfer”。

虽然前六年的工作记忆被抹除，但是他的outie出于某种原因还记得“重启之前”的这幅画面，但是不知道含义，只感觉到“恐惧”。

所以反复绘画，希望提醒到自己的innie。

21、绘画的含义欧文日复一日地画这幅画，是为了让这个画面刻在自己的脑海中。

前面第14点谈到了，虽然内外两人格不共享记忆，但是“潜意识”“情绪“可以打破这个壁垒。

而欧文就想把这个负面记录在自己的潜意识中，如果自己的innie看到了这个画面，能够“本能”地躲避逃离。

其次需要注意的是，欧文画画时还有两个动作，晚上喝咖啡，听摇滚音乐，都是为了提神醒脑，为了熬夜，所以才使得白天工作的innie欧文感觉困倦，“容易走神” —— 说明走神的时候，潜意识最容易趁虚而入，所以公司才回极力避免员工上班走神，不是为了业绩，而是为了防止“破次元”。

喝咖啡

摇滚乐

22、伯特 Burt G.虽然欧文的“相好”伯特被强制退休，理论上当天应该就结束了的。

但是在第八集最后，迪伦操作过程中，我们可以看到界面上出现了伯特的名字，并且芯片是处于激活状态的（亮，而非灰色）

再续前缘？

【赫利】23、赫利的真实身份？

赫利在公司外面的真实身份，应该是身居高位，第八集结尾我们看到她出现在卢蒙年会上，相信大结局会有更多的信息披露。

这里主要强调一下，除了，关于赫利特殊身份的几点细节：a）特殊的白玫瑰赫利第一天下班时拿着的白玫瑰，是电梯口黑人小哥给的，应该是特殊待遇。

白玫瑰象征纯洁、高贵，可能是为庆祝员工第一天“新生”，但难以想象会送给其他男性员工……

第一集

第二集b）样貌、发色酷似卢蒙CEO第三集参观永恒区时，赫利和两任女CEO都长得有点像，并且在参观时，特别在下面一句台词中，把镜头切给了赫利，无论是真的伊根家人，还是卢蒙大家庭的员工，也许赫利，就是“真的伊根家人”，即公司继承人（之一），但参与分离项的目的，“扎根基层”？

还是成为CEO必须经过的一步？

但是，与这个理论所矛盾的细节则是，第二集开场黑人小哥给赫利介绍公司、基尔等等，如果赫利真的是Eagan后代的话，怎么可能不知道呢？

24、手术“失误”？

在本季前期讨论为什么赫利表现得与众不同时，有细心的网友发现赫利做手术时，手术指导屏幕上显示的是“所选工具太短” —— 所以也许是手术出现了失误，才导致赫利的异常？

更进一步，会不会是“反对者”故意安插了赫利进公司，捣乱局面，所以在手术室安插了自己的人员，导致手术“失误”，引起了后续的多米诺骨牌效应呢？

只是随着剧情发展，这一猜想似乎和赫利身居高层的身份对应不上，除非赫利不是卢蒙的人，而是竞争对手的高管/人员。

但又和她第八集最后出现在卢蒙派对上产生了矛盾。

25、赫利自尽的“灵感”第四集最后赫利采取极端手段上吊自杀，根据剪辑对比，可能是马克无心的一句话给予了灵感：口语“get the hang of 学会做“中的“hang“也是上吊的意思……

26、微笑墙 - 员工墙？

第三集参观永恒区的微笑墙，欧文说是受到卢蒙帮助的顾客的笑容，但是卢蒙并不是牙科医院，

而且近距离拍摄微笑的样子，更像是第二集开头，黑人小哥拍下赫利的照片……

微笑

拍照并且迪伦说到自己喜欢的一位女士微笑不见了，可能对应着一位员工的正式“退休”。

【迪伦】27、华夫饼派对第八集展现的华夫饼派对，包含了内在人格通常无法做的三件事：吃早饭：华夫饼一般是早饭；吃晚饭：吃饭时间是下班后；Sex / Orgy：在真正的房子、床上……其中高潮的裸露舞蹈，就是在重现关于基尔的一幅画，来自第二集，欧文与伯特第一次在健康中心相遇时，挂在墙上的那幅画：

跳舞的人，也许就是“被分离”的员工，那可就有点《西部世界》的味道了……至于受奖励者，扮演的就是画中的基尔/创始人/“上帝”，戴着头套，鞭打着俗人。

第八集

第二集而且鞭子上还赫然写着卢蒙公司的九大核心准则，要把这准则，鞭挞进每个凡人的心中。

28、最后的礼物迪伦虽然一开始不屑于马克的浮雕礼物，说那根本称不上是奖励。

但在第八集，胜出的迪伦，选择了镌刻他们四人组的浮雕，令人动容地“被打脸了” QAQ

一开始不屑一顾

最后也“真香”29、休息室听到的声音休息室/惩罚室，他们在忏悔的间隙听到的声音，居然每个人听到的不一样：迪伦听到的是婴儿的哭泣声；赫利听到的是愤怒的男人说话声；特别是考虑到第六、七集迪伦见到了外面的儿子，为了儿子大打出“口“的疯狂状。

说明即使innie的他还不太理解，但儿子对他来说是最重要、最在乎的。

所以他听到的婴儿哭泣声，也许就是回忆/潜意识中，儿子婴儿时的哭泣声。

同理，赫利应该身居要职，第23点永恒区的镜头暗示，都容易将她的outie身份，放在一个传统大亨的女儿、想要得到父亲重视却不得的身份上，那么愤怒男人声，可能就是她父亲/祖父的声音。

【其他】30、衍生短篇故事：裙带关系衍生短篇故事中，员工Peggy逃跑想要揭发卢蒙，联系了记者Daria，然后记者和编辑Jim联系，被拒绝发稿，然后Peggy离奇死亡，就没有了下文。

特别需要注意的两点：编辑Jim联系了他信任的卢蒙内部的人Jim的姓Milchick，和剧中的黑人小哥一致可以推断，这个编辑Jim和黑人小哥Seth大概率是亲戚关系，Jim直到消息后第一时间告诉了Seth，让卢蒙公司“控制”了事态，最后息事宁人。

【04/11更新】和第一季结局相关内容31、镜子测试本集“逃”到外面的三个人，虽然行为、身处环境各异，但有个共同点：有那么短暂一刻，他们都愣住了，盯着镜子中的自己，脸上不禁流露出疑惑甚至诧异的神情（马克、欧文尤为明显）

这样设计的原因，可能有a）“体制化”后不适应环境改变即使公司内厕所也有镜子，但那儿的背景始终是固定的。

数年如一日，内在的人格习惯并适应了在那种背景、灯光下看到的自己。

而当终于来到外面的世界后，在不同的灯光、背景和着装下，眼中的自己突然“变了个样子“，所也会感到惊讶。

这也就解释了为什么欧文、马克反应比赫利更强烈：他们两人分别工作了三年、两年，时间远远比刚来不久的赫利要长。

在无数次“休息室朗读“、日复一日的单调视觉背景下，被”体制化“得更严重，所以反应更明显。

b）镜子测试：自我意识的觉醒。

镜子测试本是用作测试动物智商/认知能力的一项测试，通过动物是否能够辨别出它在镜中的像是它自己，判断其自我认知能力。

而本集这里镜子前的注视，显然通过了镜子测试，但更重要的是以这种形式证明了内在人格拥有自我意识，他们是能思辨的人，而不是海伦娜在录像中对赫利所说的“我是人，而你不是”。

【欧文 / Irving】32、勋章本集坐实了欧文父亲是海军的真相（照片中的父亲正穿着手中拿着的这套水手服），并且可以合理推测欧文也曾是军人。

欧文房间里的勋章/奖章，被细心的网友查到了出处[1]：墙上装裱挂着的，是海军奖章（Navy）；而桌子上打开放着的，则是陆军奖章（Army）墙上挂着的，应该是父亲的，以做纪念；桌子上打开的，应该是欧文自己的。

不排除制作上的失误，因为欧文更可能是海军，但总的关键是，他出身于军人家庭，并且自己也有军人背景。

33、身份暗示汇总关于欧文曾经是军人/海军身份的暗示，包括1）第二集凯西女士陈述事实中的喜欢水擅长游泳喜欢雷达的声音

2）宠物名字是“雷达”喜欢雷达的声音，既可以理解为作为海军喜欢雷达检测时的哔哔声，也可以理解为喜欢宠物狗的声音。

甚至是说，因为喜欢雷达的声音，所以给狗取了“雷达”的名字

3）1100提到时间时，不是说“11点“，而是说”1100" eleven hundred，是军人常用的军事时间（military time），说明欧文语言上的老习惯被保留了下来。

4）见到上级立马站起前几集每次见到Milchick，他的上级时，就立马起立，并且战得笔直（和其他三人形成强烈对比），说明曾经军队纪律生活给他带来的“肌肉记忆”也被保留了下来。

5）不得“越级”发现违禁书籍，不想越级报告，也是类似上一点，纪律性的体现。

34、身份的意义？

所以，为什么欧文的军人家庭、军人身份这么重要呢？

主要有两个原因：解释了为什么欧文一开始是最“忠诚”的员工烘托了欧文的“性格转变”正是因为有着军人背景，欧文即使离开队伍，纪律性依然扎根脑海，甚至在个人记忆被清除之后，潜意识中依旧遵守纪律、服从上级、忠心耿耿。

其次，严肃的军人背景和禁忌的“情窦初开”形成了戏剧冲突。

欧文是早年参军，在那个甚至连"don't ask don't tell“都还没有的时代，内心深处的情愫被压制了下去。

“深柜”已久，在公司“分割”之后，不经意间将埋藏的秘密唤醒，一发不可收拾。

甚至，欧文那般景仰基尔的原因，也和自己在军人家庭中长大、敬仰军人父亲有关。

潜意识中，基尔成为了他心中的父亲。

而本季后半段欧文的态度转变，也是代表着被传统父权压制下的自我意识觉醒，打破禁锢，重获新生。

最后一集的奔赴，联系背景来看，也就不是完全的“恋爱脑”。

即使公司内外，物是人非，但伯特依旧是他最相信的人，去找他是完全说得过去的。

而欧文敲打房门时的那阵阵呼喊，不仅是呼喊着埋藏在伯特心底的那个消失的爱人，也是呼喊着冲破牢笼的自由与希望。

35、为什么这么做？

与曾经忠诚的“工作人”欧文对比明显的是，在外面的“生活人”欧文似乎是反叛的一员。

不仅日复一日熬夜绘制测试层画面、喝咖啡听摇滚，想要警告自己的 innie，还搜集了卢蒙曾经员工受伤起诉的新闻，和切割员工的名单，进行着自己的秘密调查。

不仅是这个新闻简报中提到了受伤，在第八集华夫饼派对开始之前，欧文阅读了工作手册中的一段文字，也提到了“受伤”，即下图的前两行：员工可能会受伤，甚至遭受了可怕的灭绝人性的事故，但工作场合都有着风险。

但无论如何都要继续用爱工作，完成崇高的使命。

读完欧文便嗤之以鼻地将鸡蛋夹碎在书中，露出轻蔑的微笑。

那一刻，他在为伯特被“灭绝人性”而复仇爽了一把，但事实上也许和“生活人“终于恰好共情，为他们所受的伤害而愤怒。

整理下欧文的相关线索时间冲突/消失（在上个回答中提到，欧文工作了九年，但“工作人”只记得工作了三年）记得测试层的画面；想要通过“走神”传递这个画面信息；搜集了前员工受伤的新闻；搜集了切割员工的名单；所以推测，欧文在第六年工作时遭遇了意外，不得不带到测试层重启/改造，但somehow记忆错乱，这个画面留存在了“生活人”欧文的记忆中，让他恐惧不安，也是让他觉得自己“因工受伤”，想要起诉但迫于卢蒙势力庞大，于是联系一些员工，希望找到和他类似经历的人（即地图上标注的那些人），一起共同起诉，才有些胜利的可能。

36、“历史”讽刺的一点，欧文是四个人中，“历史遗留”最突出的一位，但却说在第三集参观永恒区时，说到“没有历史的人是不自然的。

自己没有历史，心中却充满了感恩”，显然是错误。

事实上，就先现任CEO詹姆斯所说的那样，历史永远留存在我们身上，不论我们是否从中学习或吸取了教训双重含义的“历史”，耐人寻味。

【赫利 / Helly】37、赫利的身份暗示包括且不限于：第一天收到Milchick赠送的白玫瑰；第一天穿的衣服和科贝尔女士一样；

第三集参观永恒区时，样貌酷似卢蒙的女性CEO；讲“真正的伊根家人”这一句时，特意把镜头给了赫利；

”卢蒙家人“同样在最后一集出现

38、为什么要这么做？

首先明确一点，赫利是伊根家族中第一个做分离手术的人：如果别人比如现任CEO詹姆士做了，那么肯定上台演讲宣传的就是他，而不是刚30岁的赫利。

基尔更不可能了，连演讲之前主持人介绍时，都说到“基尔没有见识过，但这个芯片包含了他的种种优点……“。

所以通过分离手术实现永生的说法并不成立。

其次，赫利做这件事的目的，其实主创在访谈中已经给了官方解释[2]，原文如下。

The purpose of what she’s doing is to sort of show that severance is good enough for an Eagan. This isn’t something that we would just do to the unwashed masses. This is something that the CEO’s daughter is willing to do and is excited to do, because it’s a total benefit to her life. That’s the message they’re trying to get across.there’s so many weird cult-like dynamics. And it becomes sort of about Helena having to prove her loyalty and prove her worth and prove her commitment to her ancestor’s vision. So on a practical level, it’s basically a big PR move, but it is also Jame testing his daughter in a weird, manipulative way. - Dan Erickson主要是两点：亲自向世人证明这项技术可靠安全；向父亲表忠心，为成为下一任CEO获取筹码。

这也就和视频中海伦娜所说恰好相反，讽刺的“越否认，越接近真相”。

39、父亲的话厕所和父亲的这段对话挖了不少坑，引得观众脑洞齐飞，什么“詹姆士脑子里装着八任CEO的灵魂”、“永生说”，挺玄乎的。

但总的来说，他的这段话，至少有以下这四个关键要点：1）在床上哭了父亲听到海伦娜/赫利自杀的消息，在床上哭了。

首先一提的是，赫利自杀的消息是之后通过监控发现的，那时赫利已经重新上班了，所以詹姆士没去医院探望也情有可原。

那么是因为消息紧急，所以深夜打搅？

不太可能，而更可能是因为詹姆士年老体弱，长期卧病在床，所以听到消息的时候还是在床上的。

那么也就解释了为什么“董事会”需要中间人传话 —— 防止病菌传播，引起疾病。

同样也就解释了为什么卢蒙工作手册中有着“一天至少洗十次手”的奇葩规定，为什么海伦娜上台时，詹姆士站在远离人群的后方，而不是靠近舞台的正前方。

2）“基尔的孩子”人们都会植入这个芯片，成为基尔的孩子这句话的意思是说，通过分离手术，分离出来 innie，通过各种奖励惩罚使其顺从，成为基尔的孩子。

就像本季一开始的马克和欧文一样，崇尚基尔，对上司Milchick也是言听计从。

而且还可以利用该技术的后门设计，“加班”、“转移分支”等操作，让言听计从的“工作人”随时夺取身体控制权，乃至通过三大步骤逐渐剥离“生活人”，成为像凯西女士一样的全天候工作人。

3）“祖父”祖父会为珍惜你的所作所为首先注意，这里是“The Grandfather“，而不是”Your grandfather“，说明指的不是赫利生理上的祖父，而是特指，开创人，也就是基尔。

基尔1939年就去世了，时间上不太可能会是赫利的祖父，曾祖父到还有可能。

承接上一点，让世人都称为“基尔的孩子”，自然也就会让“祖父”骄傲、珍惜。

4）“轮回”本段最让人疑惑的一点：“轮回”仪式。

虽然字幕组翻译的是轮回，但“revolving“这个词其实也有其他意思。

比如可以理解为CEO老板坐的那种旋转椅（revolving chair），这样“sit with“这个动作就说得通，即加入董事会。

其次，介于这家公司的cult气质，而所谓“轮回”也就是cult leader常追求的“永生”，那么其实指的就是死亡。

说不定，这家公司有着什么令人背后发麻的“死亡仪式“，而下一任CEO需要出席。

《仲夏夜惊魂》而其他一些脑洞，比如可下载的记忆/灵魂而达到永生，一个脑子里装着多人的灵魂等等，没有那么使我信服。

一是技术限制，连分离手术都才实现了不到三十年（原型给小时候的海伦娜看），那么“下载灵魂”这种天马行空的技术，不太可能会更早地实现吧。

二是本剧主题是阶级剥削、压榨，那么就算能永生，也不需要“所有鸡蛋放在一个篮子里”，大可以使用别的肉体嫁接灵魂，就像《逃离绝命镇》一样。

只不过本剧强调的是“分离“，”嫁接“似乎偏离了核心要素……

《逃离绝命镇》40、“董事会” & 其他按照上面9.1的说法，詹姆士常年卧床，那么“董事会“说不定就只有詹姆士一人。

毕竟唯一一次发言，就是詹姆士的声音。

科贝尔之前要求和董事会见面，也是说在晚会上相见，但似乎并没有看到除了詹姆士以外其他重要人物的出现。

而且对外界声称多人而治，实际上则是CEO一手遮天，极权体系，也挺符合这个公司的风格。

但是和本集助手的下面这句话，就有点矛盾了：这里她指代董事会，用的是复数 they。

一方面，远程多地点电话连接确实可行，詹姆士和其他董事会成员各在一处。

并且如果真的只有詹姆士一人，和海伦娜聊起时用“你父亲”会更合理些。

但另一方面，无法完全否定“一人多灵魂”的可能，那样詹姆士肉体一人似乎也行……

其他本集关于赫利的一点细节，为什么要在镜子前默念道歉文？

因为她（innie）意识到了那句话是“合理”的。

她（outie）所做的恶（童言无忌，在看到芯片原型后，说要给每个人都装上；长大后满嘴谎言，虚假宣传，导致了分离技术的广泛应用），需要由她偿还。

而她（innie）在为她（outie）的过错道歉，也会用行动为自己（outie）赎罪。

（感谢评论区 @bluebluek 和 @焦 的指正补充）附上休息室道歉文Forgive me for the harm I have caused this world. None may atone for my actions but me and only in me shall their stain live on. All I can be is sorry, and that is all I am.如赫利的穿着：晚礼服是蓝色绿色相间，耳坠也是蓝绿色两块宝石，并且和父亲对话时，提到了原型芯片时蓝绿色发光（现在变成了不发光的红色）—— 对应了RGB理论，另外验证了蓝绿色就是卢蒙公司的代表色。

如上台时的屏幕，literally “一分为二”了——真“裂开了”（有一点点惊悚）

【迪伦 / Dylan】首先一提，通过助手的话可得知，迪伦旋转开关坚持了至少二十分钟，体力确实可以。

41、华夫饼派对 - 驯服四大脾气上一部分说到华夫饼派对是复刻了第二集墙上的那幅画。

这里需要再强调的一点是，这幅画其实就是“基尔驯服四大元素”，而四位舞者，代表的就是四大元素/脾气。

Milchick在和迪伦周旋的时候，就提到了刚才的华夫饼派对，称那些舞者为“tempers“（这里翻译小失误），说他们对迪伦的中途离开感到失望，“还能回去”就是继续中断的派对。

四个舞者/角色分别对应：丧亲/老妇：哀伤 woe新婚/少女：欢乐 frolic小丑：恐惧 dread山羊：恶意 malice用“九大价值”驯服“四大脾气”，是这幅画的内容。

42、O&D卡片补充一点细节，即迪伦在O&D偷到卡片，被紧急加班后暴走这一段情节。

一是证明了所谓“文字监控器”存在后门漏洞，短篇衍生故事展现的漏洞就是“特殊图案型文字”，而偷卡片这里，可能则是卢蒙自己生产卡片上的文字，不会被监测到，或者说文字监控不一定是随时每天都会打开。

因为如果真的所有文字都会被监测、出不了公司，那么Milchick也不会那么紧张地给迪伦紧急加班（卡片背后有文字）

二是迪伦后来暴走，攻击Milchick，正是模仿了O&D那些卡片上的动作，依次对应上手抓脖子用力往下压把对方撂倒死死掐住对方脖子

而迪伦也是先抓脖子，推倒Milchick后，掐住他的脖子，然后用牙啃。

虽然迪伦只偷了一张，还不是最重要的一张，但可能潜移默化看到了其他卡片的图示，“学以致用”至于这些卡片为什么非常“敏感”，可能被别人高价偷走，则可能和衍生短篇故事暗示一些部门从事商业间谍活动甚至恐怖事件有关。

【马克 / Mark】43、妻子的“死因”关键的一个问题：马克重要，还是杰玛重要？

也就是说，卢蒙公司想要的究竟是杰玛，还是马克。

如果是杰玛重要：类似上个回答的分析，因为衍生短篇故事中的主人公是在要揭发卢蒙的时候遇到车祸离奇死亡，和杰玛的死因一样，那么可能是卢蒙的惯用伎俩，设计车祸“招安”杰玛。

而杰玛死亡两年，最近才上线（上个回答的错误，107小时生命，朝九晚五，应该是107/8约等于13天，所以马克和凯西女士似乎也才认识）可能是杰玛最近才实验成功得以上线。

如果是马克重要：通过设计杰玛死亡或者就是意外，导致马克悲痛欲绝，成功入职。

而这里的杰玛，也许是第n代重启版本，科贝尔女士为了“做实验”，才特意调出来的；甚至有可能就不是杰玛，只是为了和杰玛长得一样，进行过整容改造的“凯西女士”。

因为凯西女士并没有透露出outie一样的潜质，所以也不是没有可能。

不过董事会都不知道科贝尔故意接近马克，来进行她的“小实验”，说明马克不是那么重要的一枚棋子。

而科贝尔也因为越界、隐瞒情报而被开除。

所以还是倾向于杰玛更重要。

另外，关于马克妻子的死因，还有一种解释/猜测似乎也有可能：杰玛车祸时，马克也在车上，但他活了下来。

因为第一集马克和海伦娜的第一次见面，差点出车祸，而她这样说道：“小心路面有冰”，无意之词，还是在暗示曾经因为“冰滑“导致的车祸？

车祸三周回学校上课，是因为悲伤难抑停滞了三周，还是因为等待身体康复花费了三周？

关于这条线索第二季的走向[2]，主创卖了个关子，但提到赫利-马克-杰玛的“非严格意义”三角关系，会在下一季进一步探索（不会像科贝尔威胁的那样，赫利立马下线）To put him in this position where the Innie Mark, we’re starting to root for him and Helly, but now we also want to root for Outie Mark to find his wife. That’s an interesting juxtaposition and conflict we’ll explore in the second season. - Ben stiller

致命魔术 2.0？

【科贝尔 / Cobel】44、科贝尔为什么这么做？

上一集结尾，科贝尔告诫马克赶紧离开“那帮人”，还让人误以为她是真心想要帮助马克。

但这一集却被打回了现实：她就是想要一心一意为公司，而上一集的那些都只是还在气头上的气话。

她并不是想让“融合”成功，而是想证明“融合”的可能，从而推翻董事会的固见，改进芯片，避免Petey那样的节外生枝，最关键是为自己被器重乃至升职增添筹码。

值得一提的是她家上一集地下室墙上贴着的剪贴画，就是卢蒙的九大核心原则。

中间供奉的那尊基尔祭坛，也预示着基尔/伊根家对她的个人生活有着莫大的影响。

比如那根标着她出生日期的呼吸管，也许就是暗示正是靠着卢蒙/伊根家的技术，她才得以存活，因此怀着对基尔的敬仰之情长大，成为了不需要分离便已然为真的“基尔的子孙”。

【其他细节补充】45、公司多少个部门？

曾经第三集赫利问过公司有多少个部门，马克说五个，迪伦说三十个。

但后来在第七集偷手册时，就可以看到分离层的部门设置，每个部门的成员一搬是放在一起的，比如MDR就是从左往右第二列的顶上四个。

每个横条上写了部门的名字，这张图里一共有八个部门，没有O&D，可能在旁边的墙上。

有眼尖的网友盘点了其中几个部门：MDR : Macrodata RefinementW&A : Water and Agriculture？

D&R : Disposal and ReclamationEQP : Equipment ？

CL : Cleaner ?在第八集迪伦操作时，看得更清楚，五个并排的文件夹，至少有五个部门的名字：其中CE、TA也再次出现，但代表什么暂不知。

46、小羊部门 - 羊奶？

引发无限脑补的小羊部门，有说是“干扰了他们的大脑，不是小羊，但他们眼中就变成了小羊“，有说是”小羊就是为了永生下载灵魂的载体“，等等。

这里提出一个猜想，可能就是最直白的，为了提取羊奶。

因为第二集部门冰箱中，我们就看到了有奶瓶，说不定就是为了保证员工健康，自产自足。

而所说的“它们还没准备好”，是说这些小羊还没准备受孕并产奶呢？

47、公司楼层分布第七集偷操作指南时，马克看到科贝尔正在坐电梯下楼，这个画面映政了科贝尔并没有经历“分离”手术，并且让我们窥见了卢蒙的楼层分布状态：

13：未知（老总詹姆士的特别层？

）12：机器（监测文字的机器？

）11：管理层10：手术室还有会议室、IT、会计处、数据处理、网络系统等楼层。

其中一些楼层“分离”员工无法进入，即右侧有锁符号的楼层。

而科贝尔正从管理层下降到“分离层”，而另外最左边的员工正从“入口”上升到手术室层

48、操作手册第七集第一次潜入保安室，翻阅指南瞥见到了几个特殊操作，也许会在后续展现，比如“干净石板循环“，应该就是”重启“。

比如“大象存取电路“，可能对应大象有很好的记忆，因此可以读取Outie的记忆？

这一页看得还比较清楚，其中关键词“the system of emotional and thought pattern“，证明这项技术不仅仅可以”分离记忆“，还能对被试的情感、思考方式带来影响，真“人体试验”。

比如“转移分支系统”理解为调职到另外一个地方时，需要重新设计空间限制。

以上三个操作在第八集的选项选择中可以看到

49、无性别厕所MDR办公室有一个无性别厕所（门牌上男女标志一起），这一集我们看到卢蒙公司楼上也是一样的设置（赫利与父亲交谈的片段背景）

值得一提的是，官方领英主页上有几个介绍短片，由迪伦带领参观一些设施，其中一个就是介绍厕所，他吐槽到MDR只有死个人，厕所里却有五个隔间。

欧文说多出来的第五个隔间是留给基尔的（那时候的欧文呀，捂脸），而迪伦打趣地说自己不信，而自己则是工作日每天换一个隔间，刚好一天一个隔间……

50、车牌 - 特殊小镇欧文的车牌，正中间是基尔的头像，应该是这个“基尔镇”的特色。

整理不易，欢迎点赞支持点个关注，追美剧不迷路

活动地址：https://viff.org/whats-on/severance-talk/ 访问这个网站后注册一个账户就可以购买这个采访录像，费用是 0 元，只填写有效的邮箱信息即可，下单成功后不久邮箱会收到一个播放地址，然后就可以观看这个采访录像。

这个采访录像是经过 DRM 加密的，非常不容易下载（反正我没成功），而且有一定的有效期限（5 月 23 日之前有效），所以购买完毕后要尽快抽时间看完。

我从网站上下载到了这个采访的英文字幕，按照采访的格式重新整理了一遍，发到这里。

英文字幕应该是机器识别+人工校对实现的，大体上没问题，时不时会出现一些小错误。

访谈录音：May 9, 2022 - VIFF Creator Talk, Severance.mp3

Kinga Binkowska👩Kinga Binkowska: Good evening, everyone. And thank you for joining us. My name is Kinga Binkowska and I'm industry and live producer here at the Vancouver International Film Festival. I would like to start by giving thanks to the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nations for the continued stewardship of the unceded, unoccupied land on which we live and work.From creators and showrunners to directors, writers, producers and craft people, the VIFF Talk series draws from a fine and creative group of key creators, whether they're responsible for critically acclaimed films, or groundbreaking TV series, our guests provide a treasure trove of information and inspiration for fellow creators, filmmakers, industry professionals, and of course, the fans.Right at 98% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, Apple TV+ Severance is one of the most acclaimed new shows of this year. Already greenlit for a second season, this mind and genre bending Series offers a heavy mix of sci fi, "dramedy", conspiracy, mystery and psychological thriller as it investigates the concept of work life balance in a speculative realm in which office workers personal and professional experiences are really siloed.We're thrilled to chat with creator Dan Erickson, whose inventive series features and unique and brilliant script, sublime direction by Ben Stiller and incredible casting highlighted by Adam Scott's note perfect centre performance and Christopher Walken biggest role on the small screen.Our hosts for this evening is Duana Taha, writer and producer. Welcome Dan and Duana!

Dan Erickson & Duana Taha👩🏻Duana Taha: Hi there, I'm Duana Taha, I am thrilled to be in conversation with Dan Erickson, courtesy of VIFF. A little intro for those of you who don't know, Dan Erickson began writing plays and making movies with his siblings and friends at a young age and went on to get his BA in English and creative writing from Western Washington University. He later attended NYU Tisch School, where he received a Masters in Dramatic Writing. Upon moving to LA, Dan delivered food and worked in string of office jobs, all while conceiving and writing the original pilot for Severance. The script became the first TV pilot ever selected for the annual bloodlist, which ultimately led to a creative partnership with Red Arrow productions, Endeavor Content and Apple. Dan splits his time between LA and New York while sneaking back to his beloved Washington State every chance he gets. The creator of Severance, please welcome Dan Erickson.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Hi Duana, How are you?👩🏻Duana Taha: I am pretty good. Thank you so much for coming and speaking with us. There is so much to chat about.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's so good to be here.👩🏻Duana Taha: Very excited. I asked you just before we began, which question you've been asked most often, and you said, you know, there was a lot about where did this idea come from? I don't have that question. Because I can imagine that, having worked one or many, many terrible jobs or jobs that thought they were pretty cute and great, fine. My question to you is, do the people at your real life Lumon know that they're the inspiration for Lumon? Are you getting DM's from everybody in your life going? It was us, wasn't it? Come on! 🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, God. I hope not. No, I have gotten DM's from I haven't gotten DM's from any of the bad guys. I'll say that. And any of the mysterious higher ups represented on the show. I have gotten DM's from former co-workers and people who have sort of been in those particular trenches with me. And those have mostly been appreciative. Yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: But they recognize that some of your jokes and references are just for that. Yeah?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. Ya no, for sure, and it's all stuff I'm grateful for now, but, you know, little, just weird corporate idiosyncrasies that I collected along the way, you know, the people who I knew from those worlds will reach out and be like: Hey, I recognize that.👩🏻Duana Taha: You know, there's a kind of an obvious sentiment that the show might resonate with anybody who's ever been in kind of a terrible workplace dystopia? Was there anything that you actually had to explain to the showbiz world of Los Angeles? That yes, this is a real thing, or yes, this is a reference that people make?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot of the people, you know, who were producing the show, or who were working on the show had their own experience in those kinds of jobs, some of it years ago, some of it more recently. But there was some stuff like sort of the core principles and the slightly culty elements of the corporate world where I'm like, No, this is real, like. I basically didn't exaggerate that at all. The core principles are actually a less ridiculous version of something I really encountered at one of the jobs where there was just these themed principles, that didn't really make any sense. And they sent somebody around, someone came from the national office, and they came around to introduce the principles to us and the trip, I'm sure, cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. You know, it's all stuff that if you're wanting to be a creative person, and eventually turn this into a story, you're just sort of putting all that in your pocket as you go along.👩🏻Duana Taha: If I understood you correctly, you're saying that, you toned everything down for Lumon?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Not everything, but some things.👩🏻Duana Taha: That's terrifying enough to be going on. I think that overall, it's very clear that this is coming from a couple of different pin points, including, you're speaking largely to a Canadian audience here, though, that we have many climates or this vast country, I in the East don't think we've ever seen winter portrayed more honestly, or brutally on screen. Was that important? Was that a real choice? How did that go down?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, we did say we were like, If we get this wrong, the Canadians are going to come for us. They're going to know that we faked it. I am honestly really happy to hear you say that, because that was one of the hardest elements of this thing. Like really green writer, I'd never actually been in a writers room before. And so I had certainly never had to go out and be on a shoot, and sort of live the reality of the things I was writing before. So I would just very willy nilly be like, Okay, let's do another nighttime scene in the snow. And, you know, not realizing A) that that's always a nightmare to have to make that happen, you know, on any shoot, and B) that Ben Stiller is the most meticulous person in the world and is not going to do anything halfway, and so, you know, he and Aoife McArdle, our other director, they were very adamant that those seem do feel real, and that we shoot them out somewhere very cold at night. And so we had a great crew that were great. It was tough.👩🏻Duana Taha: And you started thinking about ways that move on, suddenly could have like, a climate control over the town in second season, I assume?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yes. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, they probably have an office in Phoenix or somewhere a little bit more warm.👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, speaking of, let's get into it, then. Let's talk about the specificities of Lumon. You know, this show has more than most developed an incredible number of fan theories. What is your process of that? Are you engaging with them? Are you laughing at them? Do you have to avoid them? Like, what's your sort of take on that?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I was, I was told right off the bat to avoid Reddit, because they're like, it will poison your brain, like you're gonna get totally in your head. It's going to become this weird feedback loop. That's going to drop, you know, drive you into the mouth of madness. And so I for about 10 minutes didn't go on Reddit. And then I caved, and I went once and I was surprised, cautiously surprised and delighted to find that it was this just wonderful, positive, delightful community of people who were just really excited about the show and it wasn't just a lot of people who made for various things I was like, Oh, this response is actually really positive. And it's just, it's sort of inspiring, because, you know, it's all this brand new art that's being created. And then the theories, which are, there are always some that are outlandish, but it's an outlandish show. So like, I sort of don't blame anybody for that. But then yeah, a lot of it is stuff that's really smart, and, in some cases, stuff where I'm like, Could I could I use that when I get in trouble if I just did that?👩🏻Duana Taha: How close is this? Versus how can I obfuscate it?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: But it's great. It's a great community. And it's really fun to to watch them do their thing.👩🏻Duana Taha: That's how you know when people are that engaged in that kind of a cypress about what they think is the truth. The one I see coming up most often is what's the real deal with the scary numbers in macro data refinement? And so my question to you is, I'm assuming you're not going to tell us what is really the deal. So what is your favorite incorrect assumption about what it might be?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, boy, let's see. I'm trying to think because there have been a lot of really good ones. I'm trying to think if there's one that I want to admit is incorrect. I mean, definitely, a lot of people have have sort of assumed that it's kind of the first thing you would expect, which is some kind of like data mining or something like that. People's private records, which is, it may well be something like that. But I will say that when we were figuring out what the numbers are, that was sort of one of the first things that we thought, and it became this thing of like, what can we do that's either different or some kind of an elevation of that. So all I'll say is that I hope that it's something that people will be surprised by, I hope it's something that will feel both like it makes sense looking back, but that it also is a little bit counterintuitive. It's kind of what happens there.👩🏻Duana Taha: And one hopes that the truth will in some way align with Lumon's nine values. Let me say that for the audience, and I'll be watching to see if Dan malsum along with me, we have vision, verb, wit, cheer, humility, benevolence, nimbleness, probity, and wiles.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. I had to listen to you say, at first on a couple of the middle, but I got there by the end.👩🏻Duana Taha: I consider myself pretty well read, but I still had to Google probity to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I forget what it means. What does it mean?👩🏻Duana Taha: Let's say, you know, we'll have some research and bring that back later in the talk, you know, make sure we both internalize it. So I'm sure that those were, as you say, much debated and or that some went in and some some came out in terms of the final line when you were debating them. But I was shocked to find out that Lumon had a dress code. So I guess, first of all, the immediate question is, the dress code is black, white, maybe gray and pastels. As if you weren't already depressed, you're allowed to have pastels, at Lumon. How much of this do you expect that the characters themselves sort of taken on day one? Or are these things that have kind of been policed among the Lumon employees over time and become kind of facts and rules? Are there distinctions between some of the things that we hear?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I think so. And by the way, just just real quick, I looked it up probity, the quality of having strong moral principles, honesty and decency. So I think part of that is dressing right. Yeah, I mean, the dress code is a funny thing specifically because I think it is as it is, in real life, sort of a way of policing the way people express themselves and sort of the level of your own humanity that you're allowed to bring into the into the workplace and your individuality. But then, I think it is probably also artificially policed in Unit even more by the company itself. Where Yeah, like They probably are not, you know, there's a color scheme. But the other the other thing that we talked about that hasn't really come into play much in the show yet, is that it would all have to be closed without any sort of label or writing because it has to get through the code detectors, because, you know, any sort of written symbols whatsoever won't go. And so, you know, we've talked about is there, how there may be like a severance-friendly clothing stores, like where if you're, if you're working a separate job, there's a specific store you can go to that has stuck with no writing whatsoever. But yeah, that's all. You know, that's stuff that would have to be explained to the "outtie", whereas most of the actual in office behavior stuff would be explained to the "innie", and I imagine on both sides, it's a bit of an education, it takes a while to sort of, you know, we see Helly we sort of clumsily bumping up against the rules. And I think that's something that probably happens for all of them.👩🏻Duana Taha: Quite often. Yeah. And you've answered a few questions there in the sense that, obviously, we know that there's enough of a enough of a severed population, that there's also anti-Lumon sentiment and anti-severance kind of movements, and clearly a need for retail locations. So I guess, within the world of the show, what is your kind of estimate of how many people were talking about less as a number and more as a, is, does it approximate a percentage point? Is it you know, is it a part of a given town only or? Because, you bring up a lot of questions there.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, right, right. It's a really, really good question. I actually have never been asked that before, and I want to make sure that I don't get, you know, the Apple dart in my neck.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yes, this is kind of an occupational hazard for you throughout this whole talk. Right?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, they're standing at the door with the blow dart thing. it's really overkill, in my opinion. But yeah, I think it's less than a percentage at this point. It's in the culture, it's like, you know, we see that it's something people are discussing at dinner parties or not dinner parties. And they're, you know, it's something that is debated, and is probably, you know, they're think pieces all over the internet about it and that kind of thing. But I think at this point, it's still very rare. There are other severed offices, there are other Lumon severed offices around the world, in various places. But like, for example, there are states where it's not legal for you, and there are others where it is. So you know, there's all a lot of that a lot of that is sort of world building stuff that we haven't even really gotten into on screen yet. But I think that's one of the most interesting parts, especially, if we do expand a little more into other parts of the "outie" world moving ahead, it's a deep sci-fi versus Armageddon sci-fi where I always think it's really interesting, when you're looking at how it would affect the culture in a society, which is Deep Impact, by the way. 👩🏻Duana Taha: Clearly, and don't, obviously, but yes, if you had to choose. And you confirmed something that I wasn't sure was, an actual narrative fact as opposed to a line for Mark. He's so earnest when he tells Helly about the code detectors, that I wasn't sure whether that was an immutably true fact or something that he had been told and digested, you know, but I appreciate A) that, that he pointed it out and B) that he knew what she was going to do with head cap because it took I think, is a little bit longer.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, well, he's, he's speaking from experience.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah. Well, okay. I love this. And, I'm excited to get further into, that part of things. But I should have said this at the beginning, but clearly, to the degree that you are able to answer questions spoilers abound, from this point forward. But one of the things that I found so interesting is that when the show begins, the name Mark. S is so generic, with all respect to the wonderful Adam Scott, but the name is so generic that you sort of glaze over it right away. The name Helly on the other hand, pretty rare. I don't know if I've ever known a Helly? Have you? And was it intentional to kind of keep that nod to her birth name? Or, like, because I know you've lived with this script for a while, so I wasn't sure if that was something that you always wanted to be the case.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, right. I, it's funny, I was trying to remember this recently, and I honestly don't remember exactly where the name Helly came from. I think it had, you know, sometimes I'll do like a late night, like name search Google binge thing, and just like, find something, it's like, Oh, this means blank in this language. So there's those get, and then I'll forget the next day why I picked it. So that that may have happened a little bit, but I think it did have something to do with the, it's almost shortening of the word Helly and a bit and conscious or otherwise, is the fact that the name sort of stirs up this, idea of of raising hell and, appending things. So I think, but then Yeah, it did become. It wasn't until later that we actually concede that this turn that of her being an Eagan. And so then, you know, it's sort of that was sort of a happy accident, where it's like, her name almost feels incomplete. Like we're waiting to hear the other side. The other part of it, you know, waiting to find out who she really is. So I think it all it all worked out.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, it definitely has sort of the air of anticipation in a way that a Dylan or an Irv doesn't. So yeah, definitely. That hit.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Well, and Mark was also that's the only character that's based on that this named after a real person because that character is named after my dad. So, yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: Shout out to Mark. Okay🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Shout out to Mark Erickson. Yeah. A very hardworking person who I thought deserved to have a character named after him. But I feel bad because of all the terrible things that Mark ends up being put through.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, did he have a real kind of relationship with him once he saw him on screen.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I don't know if sharing a name made them feel an immediate bond or not. But yeah, I don't know. It was it was something it was funny in the writing process being like, okay, and then this next, Mark witnesses a murder? And I'm like, Oh, sorry, dad.👩🏻Duana Taha: Here we go again. Yeah, this episode.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, here we are. So you mentioned this was your first writing room? If I understood you correctly, is that right?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: What, what was the most surprising thing that you went up going 18 Browns over? You know that? Well, I guess I should back up and ask you what was essential to be a writer in the Severance room? What were you looking for? What? What was sort of the quality that that meant to you? Yeah, this is somebody who's going to play well, in this sandbox.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It was how was it tricky. It felt like a very narrow line to hit, you know, because it is a very specific tone. But you know, we wanted people who were funny, we knew that a lot of the language of the show is told through humor. And so I think that was a really important, whether or not, they were overtly comedic scripts, we wanted people who had that sort of ride, you know, even at times absurdist humor to their voice. But at the same time, I mean, we were creating such a world from scratch that we needed, people who knew were going to be good at that. And so we looked at, you know, really, people from really cool sci-fi shows that we liked and ultimately, though, it came down to every just everybody's sample and, you know, whether it was a play or, a pilot or, you know, whatever else a feature. It just had to be sort of an initial something at a click when we were reading it and make it and make us think, yeah, that's, they could they could operate in this in this world.👩🏻Duana Taha: And then so once you've assembled your sort of team of covert, covert, hilarious, world builders, yeah, were there big debates that were sort of constants that came up over and over again, or things that are fun activities. You know, when I think about the the euphemisms around, say, a wellness check, or the break room, I feel like that's kind of a writers room activity that might have gone on for for a long time, you know, the euphemism of what is HR, what is the commissary?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: No, it was fun. I mean, there was a lot, I wouldn't say that there was any. There wasn't much fighting or discord, we were all, I think, pretty much of the same mind on most of the stuff. But there were a lot of really fun debates. We talked about, like, Miss Casey in particular that that character, who, again, spoiler alert, we had to create a character that was sort of an important character hidden in plain sight, where, you know, by the time you realize who she actually is, and her relationship to Mark, you're, you're looking back and you're like, Oh, God, how did I miss that, and you're in a character, that seemed like they could exist, it's just kind of a funny, quirky side character. And we would accept her is that enough that we don't suspect there have been the other thing. And so there was like, at one point, she was gonna be this like, weird sort of traveling vendor, like selling things between departments. And there were a lot of sort of kooky different iterations of that character. And we just had a really good time. You know, improvising, and coming up with other other ways that we can portray her. And then the other thing that comes to mind is, so when Helly puts the, let me out on our arms, we had a lot of discussion about, like, how that would work, like, and at one point, it was like, we were all writing in pen on our fingers. And we were like, would she do it this way? You know, when she sort of tried to write it across the knuckles, but then we're like, no, because then the individual letter would still, so she'd have to cut up the letters. So maybe something like this. So there's a whole bunch of photos of from that time of just us various awkward, you know, appendages with with Sharpie writing on them.👩🏻Duana Taha: I'll be trying to get at that during the clip, of course, just try to write on my arm and see if I can manage it. There is I have one question about Ms. Casey. Before we get there, although we'll have many. My impression of her the way she ended up was that the the the name Miss Casey, when everybody else is used, as a first name implies almost like a, like a Romper Room kind of character or kindergarten teacher, you know, Miss Angela, or Miss Stephanie, somebody who is benevolently able to see everybody at all times. I don't know if that was sort of the the intent when she was, a traveling vendor as well? But definitely that separation and that sort of honorific that she has gave her that extra element.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, no, I it's funny. I think she did have a different name back when she was like a traveling vendor. But yeah, she, the name Miss Casey was sort of supposed to invoke that off the bat. But then also, in hindsight, it is. It's like, almost the melding of a first name and a last name. And, you know, we have this convention where the severed characters have first names and the, the un-severed ones have last names. And the fact that her first name, or last name could also be a first name, you know, it's sort of meant to invoke this idea that she's she's of both worlds a little bit. 👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, let's get to know her a little bit. This is clip number one, please. I think that enjoy each fact equally is, is one of my very, very favorite moments of the show. And then one of my favorite rules. Do you think this one I'm attributing right here Egean? Do you think there's a reason behind it? an easily explained sort of moral reason.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I think there is, I think it's, yeah, I think it's about how sort of all qualities are, must be kept in balance, you know, and we can't let our passion for one thing overwhelmed the other thing. I'm sure Kier could say it more eloquently than that, if you asked him but I I agree that it comes right from him.👩🏻Duana Taha: The combination of these characters, obviously is brilliant link constructed from you, but I have to assume that in the context of the show, that each severed worker is put together carefully and on purpose. For example, is it an accident that Helly is placed in macro data refinement? even though we have we have a spot open because of Petey? It seems as though you know would would Helly work as well in a different department?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right, it's a good question. My thought had been that Helena Eagan was was planning to join. And I think specifically was planning to join Macro Data Refinement. That's not to say that that cause Petey's ousting, I see it more as something where she was sort of waiting for an opening. But I don't think I can say any more beyond that.👩🏻Duana Taha: We will steer safely away, or not too far away. It was my opinion. But this is just me watching that, when we see Helly try and failed to resign, whether or not it might be possible for somebody to resign? Certainly it doesn't seem like any of our team have ever seen that. Is that a fair thing to say?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, Dylan has that line towards the beginning where he says, you know, good luck getting it approved and Mark's like yeah, they tend to get rejected. I'm not sure if it's never worked. But I think it's it's sort of one of these things where it's like, they just assume it's like, yeah, you know, it's it's like putting a complaint in the complaint box. You'll never hear about it again. Yeah, I don't know if I'd say never. But certainly rarely.👩🏻Duana Taha: It makes it that much more exciting than the combination of people that you have in there because, for example, Mark is quite well indoctrinated, even though Petey was you know, as far as we know, trying to plot certainly make a map. Certainly, you know, trying to figure things out before he left. So it you kind of go, well, Marks earnestness must have been kind of a nice spot for people to hide behind, or was he trying to tell Mark things that Mark wasn't hearing?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, well, it is interesting, I think the line is in there where where Petey says to Mark, you know, you tried to quit, which implies two things like it implies that his resignation request didn't come through, because he is out he didn't get it. And also that, he had sort of a rebel period, that this mark, who we now see who is this kind of, you know, snarky, but overall contented company man, that there was maybe something else before that, and that maybe he had an initial reaction that was a little more akin to how Helly is reacting. And that's something that we sort of talked about is, like, with the, with the flowchart, entry, you know, an entry, welcome that Mark has to do that sort of has all these different. You know, she says this, you have to do this, and you wonder how that was created. And you know, how many people have come in here and freaked out and threatened to kill somebody, that they've got it down to the science of like, well, no, if you just walk them through this way, they'll eventually calm down. So, it's fun, because to me, it speaks at a much longer history. Like you wonder how long they've been doing this to the point where they have it down to a science like that.👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, we do wonder, Dan, we're just here trying to wear you down.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: If only somebody knew, if only somebody knew. And they could say it, but no, Alas, no one knows.👩🏻Duana Taha: But the opening that opening sequence in the conference room. It you know, brings up I don't know whether this is an unpopular opinion or not, but in a show full of dread. For my mind, the the biggest dread and the creepiest guy in the place is Milchick. And his beautiful big smile. He has to carry around all the enthusiasm and all the enforcement, is there. I suspect there's more that we don't know about him. Is that true? Or did you have fun writing him in sort of doublespeak What's the origin of Milchick there?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, or it shouldn't be because I completely agree with you. And that I mean, ultimately, you know, 99% of that is owed to Tramell Tillman, who is just this utter force of nature of an actor and created this really thoughtfully created this brilliantly enigmatic character. That could be both the funniest and the scariest thing on screen. You know in the same moment, and the fact that it worked that well, I would say that is the character. I think Tramell well is the actor who transformed the character, maybe more even than any other on the show, in terms of like, that was written as a, not a not a vastly different character but but just a little bit more of a kind of boring by the numbers HR guy, and a lot of the some of the malice was there, because it was, you know, it's sort of intrinsic and everything that that Lumon does this sort of smiling malice, but as soon as Tramell was in there doing his thing, we were sort of like, Oh, that's who he is. That's, that's who Milchick is and so yeah, a lot of it just happened on screen in front of me, and I just got to sit back and watch. But he was always supposed to be sort of this, smiling double speaking face of the company. Who was the one telling you everything was okay, while also telling you with his face that everything is not okay.👩🏻Duana Taha: And that's kind of the beauty of of getting to do TV on top of everything else is that when you see somebody do something like that, and you realize, Oh, the alchemy it's all coming together here. They have they fit in that last piece of the puzzle. We'll take a little bit of a look at that in our second clip. If we can have that one, please. So that is another one of those scenes that I think could have probably gone on for for half the episode, I would have spent all that time learning facts about about each and every person. Were there any other surprises for you in terms of casting? Or where the characters kind of went? Once their performers were in bed with him?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, all of them to one extent or another? For sure. I mean, I mentioned Tramell. But but every, every actor sort of brought in something that I didn't know was there, And created something that was like, I mean, it's a really weird, unique feeling that that isn't like anything else. When when you when you sort of create half of something, and then the other person comes in and shows you what the other half of it is. And and it's not always what you expect. And in a way, that's scary, but it was so fun and rewarding, because all of these, you know, people did such great things with it. But yeah, like, you know, John Turturro brought in sort of this austere gentlemanly vibe that was in the character a little bit on the, but not, you know, maybe not quite to that extent. And, sort of turned, you know, created the mannerisms of the character. And it was just as soon as he was on screen doing it, we're like, Okay, now we know, Irving, and now as we're like writing the later episodes or rewriting stuff, it becomes easier, because it's like, now we know who Irving is. But yeah, I mean, every every single actor did that, did that in some way.👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, and you have some huge names that you might be wondering if the names kind of supersede the characters, but they really disappear within them. Patricia Arquette and Christopher Walken, and everybody really was in this type cast. What did you tell to whom? Some of your some of your actors are playing dual roles? Some of them kind of know that or we think they kind of know that and some do not? Was it to case by case or were you quite quite protective over? You know, there's some shows you here but scripts going out with under lock and key. So yeah, what was sort of your philosophy?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It was it was sort of case by case and I let the actor sort of lead that conversation, because I wanted to help them in whatever way was best for them in sort of crafting the performance. I remember Britt, Britt Lower who plays Helly wanted to know very little. I think that she, she was sort of more of the mind of she wants to know exactly what her character knows. She wants to go on this, scary awakening and journey with Helly, without knowing too much of the context, I forget when we did actually tell her that that, spoiler alert, Helly is an Eagan. I forget when we shared that with her, but I think it was a bit into the process. She, certainly knew by the time that she was like, in episode one she records, this message back to herself, which was actually done a little later in production. But, but yeah, it was different for each actor, I think. And in some cases, we didn't fully know. I mean, we built a lot of these characters knowing that we wouldn't them on the outside this season, barely at all. And so, you know, in some cases, we had, like, a rough idea of, you know, for example, who Dylan is outside, but, but there were, there were gaps of it that we hadn't filled in ourselves yet. So we weren't able to fully have that conversation with Zach, you know, even if, if he had, had wanted to at that point.👩🏻Duana Taha: Speaking of Dylan, I always assumed that I don't know when you had sort of the the genesis of the waffle party and all that that entails kind of lined up. But, one of the things about it is that you know, you assume that under any other circumstances, a guy like Dylan is going to want to tell everybody every solitary detail, but it's so weird. He actually can't like, nobody would believe him. I don't know, if that was on. Whether that came first or whether there was a version of the waffle party that was less, less?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Less, less, less of that? Yeah, there there was. I think it may have started as a joke. And I don't I hesitate to say that, because I don't, I really liked what it ended up being but but there was at one point in the room where we were like, well, what if it was sort of this oddly sexual, perverse thing. But then the more I think we talked about it, the more that it kind of made sense, in terms of that, we're in this office where, basically, you're not allowed access to that part of yourself, that part of your psyche, and that, you know, like anything else, Lumon would Lumon would take it and sort of commodify it and use that as a way to sort of, you know, carrot to keep people going the right direction. And, you know, in a world where everything is commodified, that that would sort of be the ultimate prize. And, and so you know, it felt like sort of an appropriately terrifying exploration of what sex would look like, in a world like this. And then also the fact of course, that they are sort of playing out this this weird, bold, image from the from the paintings of Kier taming the Four tempers, and that is, it's like, well, this is the it's like, you can feel those feelings, but they have to come from the company, they have to, they have to be given to you from on high by the company. And so it all just, it was uncomfortable and weird, but it felt, it felt like what Lumon would do, but there were definitely moments that you know, talking through it in the development where we're like, okay, are we seriously doing this though? Are we seriously? That's what the waffle party is. Okay. All right, let's do it.👩🏻Duana Taha: Just somebody waiting for somebody else to say, maybe we, maybe we shouldn't? 🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: No one said it. So we're like,👩🏻Duana Taha: Nobody hated it. But it makes sense because as there are so many different ways that we see that Lumon is, there's a bigger religious parallel than anything else. To my to my eyes, at least from everything from the art to be, to the values, to the the soul bags, or Cobel's shrine. Potato potato. But the compunction statement was the one that really got me that was the one that that felt much less about, you know, that's sort of the the the real sort of crux of when work becomes more than just a workplace where it's the sorryness and the apology is that was that an evolution? Was that something you always knew you wanted to do sort of those religious overtones and the slightly weird sexual rewards as a result?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, I mean, different different ideas came at different stages, certainly, but I think that the the religious and in some ways cult-like elements, I think they sort of evolved naturally because I think there is in some case, a weird blurry line between, a corporate culture and a cult. And, and, you know, when you when you are asked to work at a place where they tell you that, you know, your family here, and they give you a list of values of how to behave, and, and in some cases, you may work at a place with this, where there's a cult of personality around the CEO and almost a hero worship around the CEO and this idea that like, well, you know, this this person, it's okay to give yourself and give your labor over to this person, because there's some, this is someone who's going to save the world, you know, and we're not just making coffee here, we're supporting this figure who's going to go on and save the world. I'm not talking about anything specific, of course, but but I had just something I had noticed for for a while that like, there are these weird, the Venn diagram of how like a cult or even a religion will ask you to behave or ask you to think and you know, the way that that that certain workplaces operate, like there is overlap over there, there is overlap there. And and then of course, you know, we did look at different you know, what, like, real scary cults, people are made to, you know, do horrific things and, and the tactics that those people used. And so again, it was kind of it was kind of the slippery slope or the wavy line between those things that I was interested in, and you know, how Lumon could sort of bring, bring all those things together in a really spooky way?👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, like all cults, they are convinced they're doing the right thing, right. Like there's, I assumed that somewhere in the high up, Lumon brass that somewhere in the Egean's they believe that what they're doing is, is helping someone.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yes,👩🏻Duana Taha: Probably? Yeah. Yeah.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I, well, wait, I don't want to confirm anything. I shouldn't. But no, I'll say in the vaguest terms, that that that was something we talked about, and that we thought was important was just this, like, you know, nobody is really evil for the sake of evil. There are people who are greedy and selfish and don't really have morals, per se, that come out in their behavior. But, it's more interesting, I think, if this big, scary shadowy conglomerate corporate villain actually believes in something twisted, though it is like that's going to create for more, interesting conflicts and more interesting sort of philosophical debates as, as our heroes tried to figure out and then, take down what this company is trying to do. So yeah, we, in coming up with, like, what their ultimate ethos is, and their ultimate goal is, we tried to make something that sort of made a moral sense, like that made some moral sense, even if it was really skewed and scary.👩🏻Duana Taha: Right, that for somebody, if you accept X, then also Y and then they think, yeah, well, speaking of moral quandaries and complex things, we're gonna be going to questions in just a couple of minutes. So please send them in. If you have questions for Dan about the show. And, you know, see if you can get around those those laser filters and Apple darts. In the meantime, though, a couple more questions for you. There's so much lore here, since there's so much depth. I wonder whether at this point in your press tour, whether there's anything that you desperately wish somebody would ask that nobody has yet?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, that's a good question. Um I mean, no one, no one has asked, no one has asked me to take offense to this, how severance might be used in like, the process of getting in shape, or getting healthy, or, dieting or exercising. And I just want to say I think that there are some maybe really scary answers potentially, to that question. So that's something that maybe, maybe moving ahead will will add to the discourse.👩🏻Duana Taha: Sure, because I can see how you know if you if you have the technology, right, that somebody Lumon might say might Want to expand into? Yeah, that's a real that's a real market there.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's never your workout. If you could just, you know, it's okay. I'm gonna do we're gonna do three hours in the gym now.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, I don't I don't think my answer is supposed to be sign me up. But you know, I can I can see where it would where it would turn heads for sure. Yeah. But okay, that's, that's really interesting that there are. Are there other places that you're debating whether Lumon can go, obviously we saw Gabby and the childbirth sort of conundrum that happened with the with she and Mark sister so we know that is beginning to be adopted elsewhere. But are there other places that have things that maybe people could outsource?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I think that list is endless, which I think is why ultimately more than anything, that's why this was a TV show and not a not a film or a mini series. Because like, early in the process, like I spoke to my manager, like format for this and it was ultimately the fact that there are so many applications for this technology that that that's what really made us want to keep it going. Because yeah, I think that you know, Gabby in the birthing center, you know, that's really scary, the more you scratch at it, but it just opens the door to other things. It's like almost anything that you don't like, could theoretically be severed away. And I think that that just opens the door to a really cool world. A really a really interesting world.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, especially when you think about the what haven't we thought about, who are we already seeing. Because it's not like people for severed are wearing any sort of indication just yet. So you know.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Innie"-casion? it was,👩🏻Duana Taha: Say that last one again?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I made a joke. I said "innie"-occasion.👩🏻Duana Taha: Oh.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I apologize.👩🏻Duana Taha: No, not at all. I'm just realizing that my own "outie" at this moment not somewhere, you know, relaxing and, and laughing at me.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: We're both at work. So we are technically both in "innie" form right now.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, it's and it's nice to know that. I guess maybe this is the entry point, right that there's another me having a wonderful glamorous life out there. It's like Instagram, but all the time. So we have a question from Adam, who asks, did you have any input in the insanely detailed driven set design and prop creation process? Or did that come from Ben Stiller's meticulous tendencies? or a third option that's not in the binary, I guess.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right. Right. Well, thank you for the question. actor Adam Scott, you could have just called me but I appreciate it. No, yeah, it was, some of that was in the, the script, I mean, that the script was definitely describe the sort of sterile maze like hallways, and I think the script did specify, like MDR being having these really big for these really weird proportions of this big, wide space, and then the small kind of cubicle sort of island in the middle. But beyond that, like the vast majority of it was, was, you know, stuff, like just meetings that we had with with with Ben and with Jeremy Hindle. And Jessica Gagné, who was our, our DP, and, you know, many, many others who were involved with sort of creating the overall look of it. So it was a mix. I mean, I think the basics of it were there but then it got really, it got really fleshed out through the communal process.👩🏻Duana Taha: I'm assuming that you were on set most of the time if not all the time. So how much of your life would you say that you spent watching people walk through hallways.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: All of it, for a while. I mean, that was all I was doing because it was in the pandemic so it was that and then I would I would go home and I but most of the yeah most of the space around us, the funny thing is we had the the set that had this, weird endless tiers of white hallways. And then in the soundstage. Beyond that were even more endless white hallways that like didn't look too dissimilar from from the set. So there was this really weird, you know. And then yeah, I would be sitting watching the monitors. So it's like there's the world of the show. And then it's really happening out here. It got very confusing after time, for a while, what was real and what was not.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, I just I started thinking about, you know, if people were called just for walking days, you know that you could, you could see your actors just suiting up for four or five hours at a time of just hallways, happy hallways, curious hallways, alarmed hallways?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Every kind.👩🏻Duana Taha: Every kind and more to come. Here is, there's a great question from Sarah, who writes: Some of the "innie" vernacular is just a little bit off, for example, eager lemur, or Dewey mouth are both quite understandable, but a bit jarring. How did you come up with that linguistic vibe?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, we sort of wanted to give a sense that there was, it's like an insular world, it's like, this is a town where the past was blocked off, you know, back in the 30s. And so these people sort of, created their own vernacular and their own language a little bit. You know, it is it is just such a cut off world that we wanted to make it feel like it had its own culture a little bit. But that also might have just been a justification for me to like, write goofy stuff that I thought was funny. In the moment, I didn't know that was sort of the language and the logic kind of informed each other mutually in that in that case.👩🏻Duana Taha: There's obviously we know that the the "innies" have no access to tech, or the any sort of online world or anything like that. But it seems as though even outside the, you know, the cars seem a little bit older, that the, the houses are not super decked out. So is that just in the the world of Kier? The town? Or does it extend further? Like, is this sort of Lumon world philosophy?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Right. Um, it's a, it's a really interesting question that I don't have a total firm answer to because, yeah, to some extent, it is just a slightly stylized world. But in another way, I mean, one thing we talked a lot about was giving the sense that, even when you're not in the company, like even when you're not down in the basement, you're still in Lumon, in a way, let like that, you know, you're not in the belly of the beast, but you still might be within its grasp, you know, if you're out in the town, and that, in a way, in a way that's maybe more in than we realize the town, the town really is an extension of the company, and in some ways, so, once we had established that, the inside had this aesthetic of being a little bit out of space and time, and sort of a little bit intentionally disorienting and space and time where you couldn't, they don't know where and where they are, or exactly when they are. But but that some of that sort of bled into the outside so that, like, we never specify the exact year in the show, we never specify the exact state. And so there's, we wanted to maintain some of that. Now, if we were to go to New York City in this world, Would it? be similarly sort of quirky and strange? I honestly don't know yet. We don't. I don't have a I don't have an answer. But I think it's a really, it's a interesting question in regard to the world building.👩🏻Duana Taha: Well, and one more that, largely for me is there's very specific language all the time around, some people live in the town of Kier. And it's specified more than once some people do. Is that true? Are there people who live outside of the town who who make it to to Lumon?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Like, like people who work at Lumon but don't live in in the city of Kier proper? I think so.👩🏻Duana Taha: Okay.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: In theory, yeah. Most of them probably live in Kier but you could have someone from like the wider county area.👩🏻Duana Taha: That would pass the screening process if they if they weren't, you know, too immersed in a in the outside world.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Good question. It's a good question.👩🏻Duana Taha: I mean, a little bit to put you on the spot, but mostly not. We have a question from Jeff wants to know who are your favorite short story and novel writers and have any of them fed into your conception or style of Severance?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Hmm, that's a really good question. And I always freeze up the moment anybody asks me something like that. And then later I'm like, Oh, I should have said this person. I mean, Vonnegut is an easy choice, and certainly was inspirational, you know, somebody that I read when I was, in my early 20s, and got obsessed with and informed a lot of my language and style and tone. I like to think, and then, like, George Saunders is someone I really like. Yeah, I mean, those would be the first that come to mind. And then I mean, there's, you know, you know, people everyone knows, it's, you know, Kafka and people like that, who definitely made their way into the tone.👩🏻Duana Taha: And I would assume too that, the same goes for people who ask about TV influences. Everybody knows when you're working, you have no time to watch anything. But in between, brief hiatuses, or, or whatnot, what have you, what have you enjoyed?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Oh, man.👩🏻Duana Taha: Whether similar or far away.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Recent stuff?👩🏻Duana Taha: Like real show. Yeah. Like when you were talking, for example, about the hero worship of a CEO. I thought, Oh, well, you've also seen the "Drop out" then. But, you know, what have you been enjoying in terms of? Yeah, just other stuff that sort of in the same in the same yearly demo as Severance that's been in the kind of the same zeitgeist.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I did. I love the "Drop out." I thought it was great. It's, it's so it's interesting to be making the show at a time when there are a couple of those like, true life, you know, fraudulent CEO, miniseries happening. I mean, there's, you know, there's that there's, "WeCrashed", there's others, but I think that I also really, I love all those shows, and I also absolutely am obsessed with "Succession" I think is terrific. And I think like at our, you know, at our highest aspiration, we would be sort of another side of the coin of because I think people are really interested right now, in, in those, big huge capitalists doing terrible things, stories. And I think that that's because there's a lot of people questioning, like, Oh my god, is this system really benefiting any of us? Is this, you know, is this something where corruption is just able to run rampant and why I think that shows like that are looking at that. And sort of, but you know, we're seeing sort of the CEO side of it, you know, where something like "Severance," obviously, it's different tonally and genre wise. But, you know, it is a story that I think, looks at some of those same themes, but you know, we're with the workers on this one. And we're, you know, we're down and the focus is basically the effects that this system has have having on these people who are trying to live their lives. So I think it's really exciting to be it's a really exciting time to be making TV and especially making TV about work and about, you know, the system that employs us, because I think that that's something a lot of people are talking about right now. I also love "YellowJackets." I thought "YellowJackets" was terrific. I thought it was really scary.👩🏻Duana Taha: It was scary and delicious. And Bart and Ashley, the creators were here with us doing a talk a few months ago, and yeah, they're amazing.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah. I'm fanboying over that, because that that was a that was a really cool show.👩🏻Duana Taha: Yeah, the delicious also, but, yeah, to your earlier point. I am not the creator of this term. But I really enjoyed the somebody said we're really in the middle of a "scam-demic" television, you know, starting with "Fire fest", so yeah, they're right.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Fire fest" kind of kick it off. Yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: Then it was like, well, like we need more we just want we just want to cringe more.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah.👩🏻Duana Taha: We have a question from Spanic, I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly. Who writes: Was it your original intention to write episode nine as a breaking away from the traditional ABC screenplay structure of the first eight episodes?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: That's a that's a really good question. Kind of, but not really. I'm not not consciously like. We weren't like, you know, screw you "Seinfeld", we're gonna we're gonna go our own way on this last one. But it was more like we wanted to do something where we could have done all the structural work of sort of setting up every single Domino and then just let it tip. And we wanted the last episode to feel extremely visceral and fast. And like, you know, we were experiencing it in the same crazy confused state as the "innies" were. So I think that that sort of naturally led to something that that didn't feel as sort of rigorously or carefully structured as the previous episodes. So yeah, again, it wasn't that it wasn't totally conscious. But I think that I think that we got there because we wanted this to feel like just a absolute visceral kind of panic show.👩🏻Duana Taha: Speaking up, we talked about kind of the zeitgeist of work shows that you're in, but also, in the zeitgeist of it used to be that shows like this had eight episodes, maybe six, maybe 10. Now we're in this odd numbered sequence was that? Did it? Did it keep you up at night to go? Yeah, we're gonna end on episode nine.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, just the OCD. You're like, Oh, yeah, come on. Yeah, no, we were. And I've said this before, I'm pretty sure I can say this, we were originally going to do 10 episodes. And part of that was, you know, over the course of the pandemic, like we had to sort of tighten some things in order, for budgetary or production reasons. But we also just, I think we reached a point where it felt like the right number, let like it just sort of, in order to tell everything we wanted to tell at the pace, we wanted to tell it, you know, we got to this point, it was like this, this just feels right. So you know, we could have, we could have pushed to keep it at 10. But I think that we we sort of had this instinct that it was, this was this was the place to get out.👩🏻Duana Taha: I think it was a good call the cry of outrage when you realize it's the last one and where it stops is, is sort of heard throughout. So I think well done. We've got five minutes time for just a couple of questions. And Megan wants to know, what was the development process for the show? Who was the first person to say yes.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Um, wow. Well, the first person to say yes, was my manager, Ben Blake, who was extremely supportive again, I was driving for Postmates when he took me on. And and he saw something special in this in this show, and really, really helped me sort of get things moving. This publication called the "Bloodlist" said yes, they were they were, you know, they're a genre specific take on on something like the blacklist where they, they take on produce scripts that people are into, but no one's made. And they sort of elevate them, which is, you know, they've been doing for years is great. And then yet, Jackie Cohen, who's a producer at Red hour was the first person to actually like, read the script and be like, I think we can make this like, I think we could make this and then she brought it to Ben. And then, you know, once once Ben said, yes, then a lot of other people said, yes. But yeah, Ben, I mean, the really exciting thing was in meeting with Ben, how, immediately, like thoughtful, he was about it. And you know, sort of the opposite of this celebrity who comes in and sort of slaps their name on something. It was like, right away, he was like, Okay, we need to, you know, if we're going to do this, we need to get into this and this, and we need to figure all this stuff out. And I was very happy to do so I was like, Yeah, let's hit the ground running. But yeah, it was it was it was a long time. I mean, it took it took from when our first version the pilot to where it got it was like almost 10 years.👩🏻Duana Taha: And, you know, the that's that's the reality of the quote unquote, overnight success, right? It takes a little bit sometimes. Yeah, exactly.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: "Many hungry nights."👩🏻Duana Taha: I think, as a as I guess, a final question there. So over 10 years, there's going to be so many permutations and notes and versions and things of that nature. And now you're in the position of not only did you make it, not only is it a complete critical success, but you get to make more. Is there one element, you mentioned a little hint of one, is there one thing that you sort of had to leave by the wayside for space or time or availability that you're excited to get back to in season two or subsequent seasons.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: Yeah, sure, there are a lot. And I don't think I can say anything about any of them. But, yeah, there's there's definitely plenty of, you know, Ben is a very, he wanted us to make sure that we were giving the show room to breathe and giving the characters room to feel organic, and that we weren't rushing from one thriller beat to another. So, you know, there's plenty of story, that we had talked about first for season one that that may well end up in season two. Because, you know, but ultimately, the most exciting thing is just what, what's going to happen to these characters that we've come to love and really care about?👩🏻Duana Taha: And are they going to be able to find the goats again?🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: I mean, I, It's "chekhov's goat", you know, you can't put a goat on screen and then do nothing with it. But who knows? 👩🏻Duana Taha: There's no greater promise than that. Dan Erickson. Thank you so so much for being with us. Here at "VIFF creator talks." This is absolutely fantastic. Thank you.🧔🏻‍♂️Dan Erickson: It's been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me and everybody. This has been great.

最近新播出的一部美剧，深刻地呈现了企业嗜血与肮脏的本质，今天的我们，是时候全面审视这个由资本掌控的世界了——离职

故事发生在未来，男主马克是一家名叫卢蒙的高科技公司宏观数据精简部的代理主管。

这天，马克刚一到公司，就得知了部门主管佩蒂离职，而他自己则被转正的消息。

由于是佩蒂把自己招进来的，上班期间两人也处得不错，所以马克想要打听下佩蒂离职的原因。

结果没承想，领导表示这事无可奉告，因为保密协议上的规定就是如此，员工决不能窥探其他员工的隐私。

马克一听这话便没有继续追问下去，而是按照流程正式担任了部门主管一职。

他所接手的第一个事务，是面试一个女孩。

整个面试流程非常奇怪，女孩被关在了隔壁房间，晕晕乎乎地从桌子上醒来，而马克则需要通过监控观察她的状态，并对她进行提问。

给人的感觉，这哪里是什么面试，说是非法囚禁还差不多。

面对一脸惶恐想要逃脱的女孩，马克按照手册上的指示，哐哐哐地问了五个莫名其妙的问题：你是谁，你在哪出生，说出美国的一个州或领地，伊根先生（应该是女孩认识之人）最喜欢吃什么，你母亲眼睛什么颜色……

对于这些问题，女孩的回答也是让人摸不到头脑。

她除了讲出了美国的一个州，好像对自己的一切一无所知，彻底失忆了一样。

到了最后，还是马克打开了门，告诉了她，她的名字叫做赫莉。

更可怕的是，赫莉这些“失忆”的回答，正好就符合公司的要求，马克随后还直接要给她讲述了入职介绍。

根据马克所说，赫莉之所以会失忆，是因为做了一个分离手术。

简单来讲，手术是在大脑里植入个特别的永久性装置。

有了它，人的记忆将会被精准分离，工作记忆和生活记忆会被彻底分开。

一旦进入公司，你就想不起来你在公司外发生的一切，而一旦离开公司，你就完全不记得你工作中的任何人和事。

在卢蒙公司，每个员工在入职前都会被要求做这个手术，而且还会在手术前录下视频，证明自己是自愿的。

显而易见，马克以及其他同事也都做了手术，他们的工作与生活的记忆也都是完全分开的状态。

起初，失忆的赫莉死活都要离开。

但是，当看了自己的自愿手术视频后，她开始相信眼前这荒谬的一切，决定留下来试试。

一晃，来到下班时间，马克同妹妹参加了一场聚会后，决定在妹妹家凑活一宿。

就在这时，一个神秘的男人出现在了窗外。

虽然马克对男人一点也没有印象，只是和妹妹说一下这个情况。

但其实，这个男人就是前面提到的那个离职的佩蒂。

第二天，当马克来到餐馆时，佩蒂再一次出现在了他的面前。

从佩蒂口中我们得知，他和马克都曾对工作不满，进行过投诉，现在，他已经找到了解除记忆分离的方法，正在被公司的格兰纳先生追捕。

另外，他还表示公司的地下室有个惊人的秘密，并给了马克一个地址，希望马克能够去寻找答案。

生活中的马克，自然是不认识佩蒂的，听对方这么一说，他有点将信将疑。

镜头一转，又来到了上班的日子，马克忘记了生活中佩蒂和他说的事，积极地投入到了工作当中。

哪知道，不一会儿的工夫，赫莉由于仍然觉得这个工作就是狗屎，毅然决然地就要辞职，带着一张纸条就往外冲。

结果就在她走进电梯的一刹那，纸条触发了电梯里的警报（带文件出去就会触发），此前佩蒂提到的那个格兰纳先生出现了。

由于马克及时赶到，并把责任揽到了自己的头上，格兰纳先生便放过了赫莉，把马克作为了处置对象。

处置方法很特别，就是把他带到休息室待上一待。

别误会，所谓的“处置”绝对不是电击，或者暴打一顿等暴力手段，而是对人进行某种精神控制。

比如，佩蒂曾被要求一遍又一遍地说着自己的忏悔，而有个老员工则被灌输了一大段他在公司外时生活很棒的描述。

对于马克所经历的处置，剧集选择了按下不表，直接将镜头拉到了下班后。

当时，马克正在和妹妹介绍来的相亲女在压马路，遇到了两个发传单的人。

只见他们振振有词，说卢蒙公司正在强制实施分离手术，还试图分离儿童的大脑，并且通过这个技术在搞强制劳动。

尽管马克为此和对方争辩了一顿，但次日早上，看着传单，他想起了佩蒂说的话，开始有些动摇起来。

于是，他干脆请了个病假，去了佩蒂给他的那个地址。

原来，佩蒂就住在那里，还画了个公司楼层的地图。

可想而知，在后续的剧情里，马克势必将会走向公司的对立面，将公司丑恶的真相一步步挖出。

那么，公司的阴谋到底是什么？

是不是就像发传单那些人所说的，利用分离手术将人进一步奴役？

在这其中，政府有没有扮演着什么样的角色？

感兴趣的小伙伴，就请在追剧中寻找答案吧。

在我写这篇文章之时，这部《离职》刚刚播出两集，某瓣评分高达8.5。

就像某瓣网友的评价一样，本剧确确实实可以说的上是一部关于职场打工人的科幻惊悚剧。

在我印象里，反映资本将人进行奴役物化的电影有很多。

比如，在2018年布茨·赖利自编自导的奇幻喜剧《抱歉打扰》中，无良资本家就曾上演了利用高科技将人彻底“改良”成马人的荒诞一幕。

《抱歉打扰》相比之下，本剧没有一丝一毫热热闹闹的调侃，整体氛围极度压抑而冷清。

通过灰暗阴郁的色调、极简主义的对称构图，以及充满科技、疏离感的环境设计，剧集传递出一种令人窒息的职场情景。

在剧中，人在工作时是孤独且麻木的假嗨状态，与他们在生活中颓废沮丧呈现出某种互为映照的关系。

套用五月天的歌词来形容，那就是“你不是真正的快乐”。

生活记忆与工作记忆的分离，寓意着人在工作中自我意识被“合法化”的压制下，由绩效主义驱动而催生出的第二人格。

这种自我异化，一方面，来自于企业作为资本进行生产增殖的需要，另一方面，也是员工在资本主义意识形态全面掌控世界下的“自由”选择。

这就像在现实生活中，无论你是失恋了、家人生病了，亦或者遭遇到了什么重大的灾难，只要一回到工位上，你就必须强制让自己成为工具化的人，将私人的情绪收在一边。

当然了，与之对应的，也会有相反的一面。

比如，有人会出于逃避日常苦楚的需要，选择全身心地投入到工作当中，用工作来麻痹自身，实现一种焦点转移式的忘记。

在剧中，马克之所以来卢蒙上班，首先的一个原因也是为了忘掉妻子去世的痛苦。

我们可以看到，前一秒，马克还坐在汽车里泣不成声，可一转身来到公司，他就立马变了个人一样充满活力。

尽管就剧集中的故事而言，这是因为分离手术的作用，可现实中工作生活两幅面孔的人，其实也并非少数。

只不过，无论具体的个人有着怎样不同的动机，都无法用来遮蔽和美化资本逻辑试图将人由内而外规训异化成生产工具的事实。

这一点，也是本剧所着重探讨的核心所在。

剧中形形色色的角色，都是为了这个主题而服务的。

就比如新入职的赫莉，前面提到她很快就提出了离职，而在那之前，她其实经历了这样一件事：团建。

客观讲，这个团建比某互联网大厂传出来的内容要正常的多，没有什么恶趣味的下流内容。

但即便如此，里面仍然有会使每个打工人都会深感不适的迷之操作——拍照就拍照呗，还要对着镜头说“感谢”。

咱就说，这种“感恩教育”除了老板，谁会不说一句离谱？

这不就是“没有了资本家，工人就要饿死”的论调么？

你是欺负人家没有读过“马哲”吗？

同样像某些大厂会提供晚餐、班车之类的员工福利一样，卢蒙公司也有着不少着实令很多打工人所羡慕的举措。

平时有免费水果可以吃，因公受伤会收到礼品卡，工作出状况会带去你休息室调节，甚至就连马克住的房子，也都是公司所资助的。

然而，在这些温情脉脉的表象之下，公司的目的却只有一个，那就是让员工可以更好地投入到企业的运作之中，进而使企业可以获得更高的利润。

在剧中，马克跟着妹妹参加聚会时，有人对马克的工作做出了这样一个反问：你不上班时无法回忆起在公司做什么，你在工作时无法想起公司外的记忆，那不就相当于工作时的你被困在公司里了？

对于追求自由的人类天性来讲，工作无疑是一种囚禁，无论你自愿与否。

所以，通过如此的高概念设定，剧集戳破的其实是这样一个真相：从权力视角来看，现代社会工作的本质，是一种企业以资本增值为目的，对员工所构建的全景敞视监狱。

事实上，哪怕是那些朝九晚五的工作，通过充分的技术应用，企业依然能够实现对员工深层次的控制和剥削。

仔细想想，上厕所被计时、扫大街被戴上“加油”手环等等令人匪夷所思的操作，我们不都在新闻里看到了吗？

我注意到，剧中有这样一个设计——明明卢蒙公司干净到不惹纤尘一样，但员工的手指甲里却都是黑的。

还记得前面提到那个老员工么，他的眼前甚至还出现过沥青一样的黑色液体吞噬一切的画面。

虽然这当中的缘由我们只能在后续剧情中了解，但其象征意义十分明显，即公司光鲜背后的邪恶与肮脏。

回到现实层面来看，我相信并不是所有的企业，都如剧里卢蒙公司那么糟糕。

可即便如此，也并不影响我们通过这部剧来对习以为常的工作进行审视。

康德说过，人是目的，不是手段。

生活在现代社会的运行机制里，哪怕我们已经很难去设想和创造一个迥然不同的世界，但也永远不要忘了一点，人不是工具，我们自身才是最根本的意义所在。

觉得我说的有道理，那就点个赞，让更多好朋友来关注我吧！

今天就到这里！

拜了个拜！

本文图片来自网络编辑：沼泽

剧名人生切割术，可是人生真的是可以切割的吗？

剧中给出的方案是将记忆分割，可见记忆与人格是强绑定的。

你的人格来自于你的过往经历与记忆，记忆没有了那部分人格也就死亡了。

所以对于工作的人格，生活的人格不存在，反之亦然。

虽然不知道怎么只留下工作相关的记忆还能保持人格的健全和正常。

从第一集的测试题目来看赫莉只能记起美国的州名这种绝对客观的知识，但是所有有关个人的记忆与经验全部丧失，有的只是绝对理性的部分，那这个人恐怕会比谢耳朵更像机器人吧，用绝对的理性来对待工作本身。

这部剧最让人毛骨悚然的是对于工作人格来说，生命是007无休止的工作，没有休闲。

即使身体经过了睡眠和8小时之外生活的修养但是精神没有得到丝毫滋养。

想象不到这是怎样的无间地狱。

而人类真的可以对自己做这样的事情吗，仅仅因为“我感觉不到”这一点。

假如被奴役的人是自己是否就没有了可指摘的地方，这么说的话，自杀在某些国家也不应该被批判为道德瑕疵了。

记得爱死机还是黑镜里面，有一集探讨的就是这个问题。

女主把自己的人格备份一份做成了AI成为自己的管家，类似于小爱或者Siri。

因为只有自己最了解自己也最能够全面的照顾好自己。

但是这个被装到AI里面的人格却十分痛苦，因为她就是一个7*24小时不休止伺候主人的工具人。

人格与时间线一样，分开的那一瞬间就变成了两条不相交的平行线，另一方的喜怒哀乐哪怕死亡都与己无关了。

就如同最后一集伯特的“退休”，其实就是工作人格的死亡。

这部剧目前我不太理解的是这个“公司”的设定，为什么要用如此非人性化的方式来管理这些可以说007吃住永远在公司的员工。

（对于工作人格来说，公司就是他永远的家，他的家人只有同事和上司）这是非常不明智的。

从管理学的角度来看，为了让员工有更好的产出也应该让他们有更舒适和更愉快的工作体验——“以厂为家”，才是更聪明的办法吧？

当然这种归属和认同感不是通过剧中这种神化创始人的方式缔造的，虽然这里包含着巨大的对现实的讽刺。

确实非常多的企业还没做大做强，已经开始急着神化创始人了，比如前段时间文峰集团那件事，简直贻笑大方。

可是现实中我们确实会不经意的把成功人士捧上神坛，虽然细究起来其实很多人只是刚好碰在了风口上，成了一只会飞的猪。

最后我觉得这种制度最细思极恐的是，在公司里，封闭的地下环境，不见日月，你会失去时间感。

当没有参照物的时候，你相信的只有墙上的时钟。

那么你怎么敢保证公司只奴役了你8小时，理论上只要他想，它可以奴役你24小时，直到你的肉体拉响警报。

事实上，佩蒂的台词里有暗示或许公司已经在这么做了。

你的权利保障只在于外界还有没有关心你的亲友——比如发现你很久没有出现，可以怀疑是否一直在“加班”。

假如你的社会链接断掉，那么公司可以无所顾忌的奴役你，而你一无所知。

这也许是一个关于当今社会人类原子化的警告，就像老人院无人问津的孤寡老人可以任由护工虐待，你永远需要你的社会关系作为你的一根保险绳。

还有，记住，永远不要愚弄自己的大脑和意识，这是你之所以为你能保留的最后一样东西。

“特别是要设定框架，不要让纯正的批判力量获得有力的成长，就是要培育顺服的心理与习惯”。

为什么作为“打工人”、作为年轻人，强烈推荐观看品味此剧呢？

在这个剧里我看到了《美丽新世界》、《1984》的精神，我看到了《西部世界》、《鱿鱼游戏》的影子。

不仅在于它的烧脑程度、它的画面场景布置、它的剧情起承转合；更在于它所体现的深度、诱发的思考，是丰沛而充足的，是荡气回肠的。

布雷夫曼（Harry Braverman）说，“资本主义生产模式的分工有一个最为关键的阶段，就是手与脑、劳力与劳心分了家。

”这可以说是对资本主义生产分工的经典论调了。

工业革命后工业与农业被分割开，西欧国家从农业国脱胎为工业国（后来在20世纪初期苏联也做了更刚烈的实践）；第二次工业革命后生产资料的生产和使用被分割开，“打工人”开始被分成“蓝领”与“白领”（后者开始滋生了莫名其妙的优越感）；科技革命后社会分工彻底被切割细碎，诞生了“螺丝钉”的概念，直到现在，写代码的程序员是螺丝钉，编文案的新媒体运营是螺丝钉，跑客户的房地产中介也是螺丝钉。

本剧中的卢蒙公司严禁部门间互相串通交流，完全杜绝“跨部门协作”，每个人都在封闭的格子间做自己的一份工，成为一颗颗不能、也不愿思考的冰冷的螺丝钉。

相信对社会科学感兴趣的人们已经对马克思主义的“异化”理论熟稔于心了，“文化工业”是如何收编工人的反抗思想的、“大众文化”是如何将工人团体打散成“乌合之众”的，我们在做文化研究的时候也饱经哈贝马斯、阿尔都塞、斯图尔特霍尔、齐泽克等人的“教育”。

那么回到本剧，“卢蒙工业”这个“大魔头”是如何吸引主角们心甘情愿的应聘入职，又数十年如一日的忠诚打工呢？

“走火入魔”似的“宣传洗脑”很重要。

每个新员工都要学习企业文化，而老员工则以创始人“基尔”的精神纲领与企业愿景为荣。

正如拉扎斯菲尔德与默顿所言：“特别是要设定框架，不要让纯正的批判力量获得有力的成长，就是要培育顺服的心理与习惯”。

枯燥的工作（精检数据）、自由的灵魂（离职被拒）、好奇的心理（上级来访）等多重因素的作用下，男主作为小组长，带领整个部门发起对公司的反抗。

劳资冲突淋漓尽致的在剧中体现，公司的手段无非是监视与控制，规训与惩罚，而主角们的招数则层出不穷，上演一出“猫抓老鼠”的大戏。

值得一提的是，在高压的环境下，在“动辄得咎”的制度下，主角们仍以顽强的精神进行着“聪明的罢工”。

伊恩纳吉写道，“聪明的罢工瞄准公司的声誉，精心设计罢工细节，既损害公司品牌形象而又不破坏生产目标。

考虑到大众对大企业都普遍抱有怀疑的态度，打击公司的声誉和股价可能会更加有效”。

这一论断也是现在欧美刻画劳资关系的“爽剧”的主要套路。

抹黑、打倒大公司仿佛成了“政治正确”（近期还有一部剧叫《suspicion》，改编自电影《假旗行动》，讲的也是如何揭发大公司的罪恶），结局通常是小人物获胜，人文关怀和“自由主义”的价值焕发容光。

剧中一次经典的对抗行动，依托自一场“狂欢”。

主角的一名同事终于忍不住爆发愤怒，肢体袭击了高层领导，打响了罢工的“第一枪”（苹果官方在介绍剧集背景的时候用了“the Lexington letter”的比喻，真是恰当）。

巴赫金指出，“在狂欢期间，阶层等级的废除具有特别的意义。

生命仅仅只受自己的法律支配，即自己的自由的法律。

它有一个普遍的精神，它是整个世界中的特殊情况，也是世界的复兴与重建的特殊情况，所有人都参与其中。

这就是狂欢的本质，所有的参与者生动地感受着”。

上海疫情，在单位封闭了半个月，回家又关了一个月。

坐牢的滋味，每个人都真切地享受了一遍。

五点起床一样抢不到菜，看新闻又可能被气出问题。

人在家中坐牢，工作却一点不能拉下，元宇宙的乐趣尚未到来，饿肚子的危机已经满溢。

还是看喜剧演员转行导演的悲剧吧。

这部切割术一开始设定绝妙，但高开低走，节奏拖沓，9集最后为了保证下季下的hook几乎是在欺负观众了。

首先注意到的，是卢蒙公司的科贝尔的制服，接待处，公司建筑风格，基尔的侧面浅浮雕风格，有东欧和前苏联的美学影子，但说它是斯大林风格是不准确的，苹果风格的苹果剧，乔布斯孜孜以求的方尖碑式庄严洁净，在剧里面贯彻了大致一小半。

老大哥化身蓝绿晶体管，不仅满足于在从外部观看你，还深入脑体，将你人格解离。

但看完9集，也不知道卢蒙公司的目的是什么，看这个剧情走向，大致是要滑向买办政治的阴谋论，所谓“基尔的孩子”，也无非重复了技术进步被集权洗脑术利用的政治学老路。

被关在break room里接上测谎仪，这件事无需太高超的手段，乌姆里奇对哈利波特做过，白色恐怖对小四的父亲也做过，一间炎热的房间和一支笔，一堆写不尽自己罪状的白纸就够。

格列佛游记中，某国思想警察的工作是检查人们的大便，以此来确保没有不适宜的思想被生产（排泄）出来，世界在进化，如今保安大叔不需要翻大便，从源头开始做切颅术即可。

果然先进，洁净了很多。

马克思的话不好多说，不说也罢。

另一方面，主角Mark·S之所以愿意来卢蒙接受这份工作，全是因为情感受创，爱妻车祸惨死以后就陷入了危机。

这和受到创伤而将自己原本人格压抑，解离的心理症候——人格分裂症是一致的。

假定悲惨的事情不发生在自己身上，而分裂出一个承受痛苦，压力，和精神压力的人去承受。

正如戴文在分娩中心遇到的孕妇，将部分的自己分裂出去承受孕产的痛苦，剩下的自己即可安享轻松惬意的生活，不过是代孕故事的另一个转喻版本。

新人格，baby人格，从出生就受到母亲（科贝尔）的严厉教导，训诫，但随着新人格的成长，也必然会遇到代际冲突，对权威的不信任和挑战，小分队的密谋，反抗，研习的都是这条道路。

人格既然能一分为二，自然也可以一分为四，四分为八，乃至无穷尽，夸张如污鬼大群，有上千人格齐聚一身的情境，无法统合的自我和分裂成碎片的记忆，每一个，都受人操弄，被人控制。

谋求统合，在个人，在时间流中是自我认识的路，在社会，是不同阶级群体寻找共识的路。

但时间行至21世纪，没有佛洛依德也没有马克思，只有“基尔的孩子们”，分裂的污鬼。

S01E01：似乎有点平平无奇，是一个很好的概念，但展开的还是比较慢，最后的女boss似乎是可以穿越分割线的？

这个男演员还真眼生，似乎一次都没看过他的作品，期待下集。

e02:情理之中，但算有趣。

引入了一个穿越者。

有点喜欢剧里那个概念，如果你辞职，其实就是杀死自己。

以及8小时不间断上班人不会疯掉嘛！

WLB,（work life balance,工作生活的平衡）想必是许多打工人的理想。

苹果TV+播出的职场惊悚剧《人生切割术》倒是精确完美地做到了这一点，可毕竟惊悚剧，又会多美好呢？

第一季共9集，前两集进入稍微需要点耐心。

第一集扑面而来的苹果美学，科技感、极简主义、清冷的画面，这种冷淡的开场及叙事，的确稍显无聊。

但，平静之下，必有暗涌，一切当然不会如看起来这般协调。

《人生切割术》中，要进大厂卢蒙公司就职，需要自愿实施一项分离手术，做完这个手术，记忆便会受到空间限制。

在公司大楼里不会有外面的记忆，出了大楼，不会记得与工作有关的一切事宜，哪怕最亲密的同事也互不相识。

男主马克因为受不了丧妻之痛，主动选择了分离手术。

他时常哭着开车到公司，一搭上到部门的电梯，便化身战斗力爆表的干活机器。

其他接受手术的人也如此，在公司的员工个个看起来精神抖擞、容光焕发。

但是很快，暗涌来袭。

首先，马克的老领导，他工作人格（马克A）的死党佩蒂突然离职，马克A被提拔为宏观数据精检部新主管。

但是现实中的佩蒂找到了马克B，原本作为分离技术坚定的拥护者的马克B，逐渐开始动摇。

（后文人物工作人格均用A表示）其次，新员工赫莉的到来打破了部门的平静，赫莉A三番五次尝试离职均以失败告终，最终，她选择自杀。

这些暴力行为也多少刺激到部门其他同事。

最后，部门还有两位成员，爱上光学设计部主管沃肯A的老员工欧文A，以及在家被唤起工作模式见到儿子的迪伦A。

如果说工作模式是没有感情的干活机器，那么在最终决定反抗前的阶段，宏观数据精检部的同事们的情感意识被激活了，这个号称永不可逆的分离手术，还是没有战胜人性。

最后一集，四人组计划让工作人格走出大厦寻求帮助，至于他们成功与否，就要等下一季才能揭晓了。

我预测不会成功，下一季还会有更大的骗局给主角几人。

他们依然需要重新认识，再次实施揭秘计划。

赫莉给我留下很深刻的印象，作为家族接班人，她原本是要以身试教，昭告天下分离手术是多么好。

结果当她的工作人格第一次醒来，整个人对眼前的一切都是怀疑和抗拒的态度。

为了成功离职，她甚至以死相逼赫莉B，真的太勇了。

也许这就是人之所以为人的原因，即便做了分离手术，仍然具有强烈的自我意识，我愿意，我不愿意，我喜欢，我不喜欢，一切都由我决定。

而至于那个把我送进地狱的自以为是的我，F**k me!

1: 概念挺常见的 类似paycheck那种出于工作内容保密而清除工作者记忆 不过severance更可持续发展而且员工导向性 说是为了员工生活工作互不影响（虽然只是个旗号）主要这个梦核场景设计是真的亮点啊。。。

第一集要素齐全解释概念和双面人生 各类主要角色交织命运的齿轮开始转动 片尾邻居埋线女老板也是神来一笔2/3:场景转换剪辑太牛4:女主外人格奴役内人格那段真的很黑镜绝望了 片尾各怀鬼胎也很绝。。

虽然主角只有一个但所有人都是真相巨大的编制网络！？

7:这集信息量又大点 爱看老头为爱革命。。

老婆是心理医生那里之前蜡烛有猜到 而且男主在她面前捏了树也像是一种分离体同源的潜意识？？？？

有一种类似不同记忆的同一个会不会有同一种灵魂9:各种意义上的神 在见过真相之后真正发自内心说出休息室宣言了。。

看完只想起立鼓掌另外：一旦开始探讨不同记忆的同一个体会不会有同一种灵魂就很有意思了 正好前几天又想了一下不同个体继承记忆的灵魂走向 们对于仿生人复制体的解读一般说是 就算记忆看似相同 但因为缺乏那样的体验 记忆对他们来说就像看别人的电影而无法联想称成为自己经历过的事 所以自带分离割裂感 就算是以继承某个人身份而生存的目的存在也可能生长出另一种灵魂 而severance这种探讨刚好反着来 就像是在说就算把一个人的历史无论抹去多少次 只要这个思想还在这个躯体里 他们的灵魂终究会完整回到他们本该存在的地方、、

《人生切割術》集聰明、睿智、搞笑、引人入勝、陰森、不安和發人深省等諸多特質於一身。

這部劇的懸念推動著劇情不斷發展。

劇中有太多的疑問，但沒有任何信息會一次性全部呈現給你。

你必須親自體驗這部劇，一點一點地去揭開究竟發生了什麽的真相。

你越深入劇情，就越能發現真相，也會越發投入其中。

這部劇揭示情節的方式令人十分滿意且構思巧妙。

在攝影和場景設計方面投入了大量的心血。

拍攝手法和構思都非常精妙。

劇中這些創意的呈現方式、執行過程以及對這些創意的探索都堪稱完美。

演員們的表演堪稱一流，而且劇中的幽默元素也十分到位。

這部劇的概念非常引人入勝且獨具創意。

不僅如此，編劇們在挖掘這一概念時也做得極為出色。

他們采用了一種富有創意又貼近現實的手法，塑造的角色和設定的情景都極易讓觀眾產生共鳴。

這使得劇集內容極具感染力且引人入勝。

在這方面，這堪稱科幻題材的典範之作。

這才是優秀科幻作品應有的樣子。

我最喜歡的劇集之一是《絕命毒師》。

那部劇同樣具備這部劇所擁有的現實質感和角色代入感。

然而，《絕命毒師》並非科幻題材，而這恰恰是我最喜愛的類型。

正因如此，《絕命毒師》缺少了這部劇所能提供的東西——一個發人深省的概念，同時兼具優秀劇情應有的現實質感與角色代入感。

而《人生切割術》兩者兼而有之。

這部劇的整體氛圍也非常好，這一點常常被許多觀眾忽視，我所指的是一種整體格調，搭配適宜的音樂、燈光、攝影等元素。

它就像有一種魔力，能將你從平凡、或許枯燥或混亂的日常生活中抽離出來，帶你進入一個令人向往的奇妙世界。

而這部劇就能給你帶來這樣的體驗。

有一種獨特而怪異的氛圍，是我在其他劇集或電影中從未體驗過的。

這部劇仿佛存在於一個獨立的宇宙之中。

那種陰森的反烏托邦設定讓人感覺十分壓抑和不安，就好像所有的歡樂都被抽離了一樣。

這個世界看似與我們熟知的世界相似，但同時又很陌生，仿佛這部劇的故事發生在一個與我們世界類似的平行宇宙中。

劇中的某些場景、瞬間和創意是如此超現實，以至於會讓你開始質疑現實。

整部劇始終彌漫著一種潛在的陰森感，我甚至覺得有時候它既不祥又恐怖，感覺就像是在看一部A24電影公司製作的劇集。

《人生切割術》觸動了我們社會的神經，因為我們能對那些被呈現為「半存在」的人物產生共鳴。

在這部由本·斯蒂勒執導的原創劇中，人們的思維不知為何被分割開來，於是當這些人從事辦公室格子間工作時，負責工作的那一半大腦不記得工作之外的生活，反之亦然。

還有這樣一種理念：當我們分裂成兩個人時，我們就不再完整。

人們很快會遇到那些之前見過的人，但這些「分身」此前並未見過彼此。

這些被「切割」的人實際上就像是不同的人，左右腦的想法充滿了無限可能。

這些被奴役的思維最終能否掙脫束縛呢？

這正是我們在整個看似平凡的劇情中一直期待並支持的，比如偷偷摸摸穿過上鎖的門和走廊，這些情節緊張得超乎想象。

有些主要的生活狀態（仔細想想，這種情況下得花大量時間睡覺）或者說「外部人」（他們在外面的世界生活），這些「外部人」本身並無好壞之分，他們只是需要從工作的常規中解脫出來。